still has a bunch of unfixed confirmed bug reports, and bullshit nerf with its hydrualic system
Yeah, but pretty much same with any top MBT except Russian ones or Leopard 2s.
Gaijin themselves said it was used. Even in the article trying to disclaim them that they used as a source, the hide behind Gaijin logic means nothing.
yeah but not the ingame model, and if u want spall liners, get sources and submit a bug report for it
actually not really, we know that they have 2 layers armor and air consist of 34mm of high hardness steel outer, 127mm air and an unknown inner layer of steel and 46mm of soft steel(cha) which act as spall liners but not directly like spall liners
spall liners or kevlar does not spall when hit, and catch the projectile or “spall”
the 46mm cha on the mbt b kpz is just basically another layer of welded armor, incase the original fail then that catch the spall
thats it
act like spall liners /= spall liners
one word
Nein
also abrams does not have spall liners
abrams does not have DU hull but improve hull armor(SEP+, AIM) the HC, SA, HA or whatever should have better hull than the M1 but not by a large margin(50mm more ke protection at best)
turret armor is underwhelming tho it should be higher than 460mm ke(A1/IMP1)
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yes it does have spall liners, and yes it does have a D.U Hull. i get my information directly from someone that used to work for GDLS the M1A1 H.A Had D.U Hulls. This isn’t up for debate or discussion. Nothing gaijin says has any weight or credibility anymore. They got the Hydraulic system wrong, they got the turret armor wrong, they got the turret basket wrong, the M735 still isn’t fixed.
those i can agree but no
it does not have spall liners, ask @Conte_Baracca he also works on the Abrams and he served on it
DU hull is only for sep v3 and up, the sep v2 likely have upgraded hull like the AIM and add on composite block on the hull, sep v1 also has upgraded hull the hc ha a2 only have non du hull, they got armor upgrade because they have better composite generation
hc/ha has gen 2 composite, a2 has gen 2.5 or 3 the DU insert are only for the turret and as of now sep v3 recieve DU in the hull
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im going to re type what i said. I know someone who literally worked for General Dynamics Land Systems. You can keep typing this stuff over and over, and im going to keep telling you the M1A1 H.A had A D.U Hull. I know conte works on them, the guy i know also worked on them and served on them as a Gunner / Commander, and he was in a Abrams during the Highway of death.
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I have been playing since closed beta for ground. I have played a lot of US.
I wouldnt say they were ever op. I find most of them average. Maybe the t29 was a bit strong and the t28 is really good on certain maps. T26e5 is probably the strongest US tank imo. Lower br shermans are also pretty good too.
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yeah its like we gonna trust that, you have present 0 fact at all and you have absolutely no idea what u are talking about
i know you want abrams buff but its just not possible
to get abrams buff
gaijin must acknowledge generational improvement
fix the current issues of the abrams
present more logical armor calculation
ammunition penetration are preferably base on actual document over LO calculation
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Great then get rid of the T-80B with thermals, as only one had them and it was a testbed not a combat vehicle. Get rid of the Object 292. Get rid of the Object 775. The Leo 2AV. The Maus. All other prototype vehicles.
I hate this logic. Its such a double standard for LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE in game. We have so many vehicles with mods or shells or full on vehicles that are just one offs. Think the Maus, T-80B Thermals, Object 292, Object 775, Leo 2AV, etc. etc.
By any and all Gaijin logic, Three is more than enough to justify a variant getting them, preferably the M1A1 HC as it is what realistically would have it via the Armor School. I’m not asking for every single Abrooms to have it, and obviously I would hope the armor values affect speed and make the HC slower, but. Lets stop kidding ourselves by saying “only three had it therefore it isn’t allowed”.
Edit: And before anyone says that “oh well specificlaly the HC never had it” well the HC was just an A1 HA. Gaijin even admits in the Wikimedia page that it
“has armour improvements due to incorporating the “Heavy Armor” (HA) upgrade that includes depleted uranium inserts”.
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Actually, what he gets wrong, and why Gaijin cannot add DU hull armor, is they didn’t specify which Abrams version did such hull armor insalls. It maybe HA, it may be HC, it may be FEP, we don’t know.
It’s not matter of prototype, its not matter of double standard. Source is too rare.
i dont care if you trust me or not
people have posted numerous documents over the years stating the D.U Hulls in Abrams from Text books to government websites, you can keep being ignorant like gaijin if you want, it doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. Keep thinking that for the last 30 Years that the U.S Military or GDLS just sat back and said " we are never going to increase the protection on the Abrams, meanwhile the Russians / Chinese keep making more and more deadlier APFSDS rounds. There are literal fucking books even stating this.
Both the M1A1 H.A and M1A1 S.A have D.U H Hulls. the M1A1 HA Literally came out in 1998 and the S.A came out in 2009.over 30+ years of Upgrades.
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Gaijin already knows which one, it literally has M1A1 HEAVY ARMOR The M1A1 H.A from 1988 when they first started upgrading the original M1A1s , then in 1998 When they started BUILDING Tanks with D.U in mind for both the Hull and turret.
Because they don’t want to give the M1A1 any way to abuse Hills and use gun depression, it would make it invulnerable to just about every round in the game.
gaijin doesn’t care about acknowledging the truth, they literally came out and said they dont believe M829A3 could penetrate Russian ERA, if this doesn’t tell you something about this company i don’t know what else to tell you, they just made up some b.s about the turret basket in the leopard / abrams because they say they want to reward people for hitting the tanks? what kind of idiotic b.s logic is that.
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Why do you even bother witth sartt? He’s been known ever since the OLD FORUM to be a massive freeaboo. You could give him documents signed by the POTUS himself and he’d still disregard them as long as they don’t conform to his fantasy of how something should be.
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I dont know that isnt what I got out of him in the time I’ve been visiting the forums. If I were to guess I think his fantasy is just some good ole balance and a less crappy top tier experience. Hell, who’s here that doesn’t want that? Please see them on their way out.
SOurce? None. US department of energy only ever approved for 3 DU hulls pre V3, not denying those 3 HAs or V3s but no other are proven to hav DU hulls.
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No government website ever said that, only 3 HAs are ever approved for DU as seen from US department of energy, nuclear security commission. Clearly states 3 hulls are given permission to be made with DU.
How do we trust the person who gives the wildest of sources.
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Source: Trust me bro
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After some research, I realized I may be incorrect. The inserts are UNKOWN on the M1A1 HC, however, CONFIRMED on the A2 and Sep by reports found here
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/YCmfAEiaPZSq
specifically, the Congressional Budget Office and Congress of the United States “The Army’s Future Combat Systems Program and Alternatives” report.
The report clearly states added Heavy Armor in the Turret and Hulls on the AIM, which is replaced with 2nd Gen DU armor on the A2 and 3rd Gen DU on the SEP. There is another congressional report which talks about the addition of more front and side armor when upgrading the A1 to a SEP config, although that source is a bit more vague.
It is absolutely is a double standard regardless, because Gaijin “doesn’t know” a lot of things, and yet they chose to add and give. Their are plenty of examples, primarily towards Top Tier (where the M1s sit).
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To reiterate.
DU hulls were placed on 5 test hulls according to public documents.
The hulls for the M1A1 through M1A2 Sep. V3 are identical.
Therefore M1A1 through M1A2 Sep. V3 are all capable of DU hull armor.
It must be recognized, again, that the public and ergo, Gaijin, have no idea what the actual protection schemes for the M1A1 and above tanks looks like. The are all estimates based on size and funding documents. These are historically poor methods for determining capability. So, the armor protection in game is all fake. A deeply flawed guess.
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