M829A2 penetrator is 680-690mm long. For some reason whoever wrote “penetrator” in this source can´t differentiate between the penetrator proper and the full length of the projectile. Diameter is OK though.
Gaijin uses LO. They also only take into account the part of the APFSDS that actually penetrates armour (tip and tail usually are not DU / WHA). As you can see, they use 22 mm by 680 mm with a density of 18600 kg/m³. Unless you can prove otherwise, penetration will not increase.
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The spall liners doesn’t help at all. just a little fragment is enough to destroy the module and you’ll be useless for 30-40 seconds depending on crew level (i’ve tried so many angles in the protection analysis, most of the shots that penetrated will disable the turret).
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They already did even before the addition of basket in NATOs?
I like how the first thing NATO mains bring up is the T-series that they didn’t even play lol do yall seagulls brained have any idea the autoloader module is technically a nerf to the vehicle? it doesn’t get the turret ring but affects the FCS, disabling shot is disabling shot, what makes it different if its a turret ring damage or the gunner getting a heart attack? you cannot shoot then you cannot shoot
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The turret basket change is meh. I don’t know about the Abrams, but in Leopards, the turret drive is a rather small module at the turret ring. Its electrically driven, so theres a simple power line/cable leading to it from below.
The basket, the bottom plate, the mesh etc. have nothing to do with the turret drive. However ingame, as soon as a fragment hits the bottom plate (its just a sheet of metal) or anything, it blocks the turret.
Maybe the general problem is that the spall cones are that huge. Even bad hits flood the interior with spall. Not even 2A7’s side spall liners do something to contain that a bit.
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there is a big difference lol, with the broken autoloader you can still freely aim and shoot once,
and on an unrelated note german pzh2000 dont even care about autoloaders, even if you break the autoloader they can still reload
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Maybe they have never played USSR tanks, but they have must fighted against them. Truly the autoloader nerfs them, what is more frequent is they may do a bad shoot that does not directly destroy t80 and are killed by them, even though autoloader is destroyed. This never happens on NATO vehicles now, because once u penetrate Leopard or Abrams, they can no longer aim, the pen must have disabled transverse.
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that 680mm is the length of M829a1, every single time i’ve looked up the length of M829A2 its 782mm long., in-fact there seems to be multiple errors in the length of the rounds. WT Live // Images by Jackvony @Jackvony said its longer than dm 53 by 10mm , but the information i got from ATK , Primex was over 780mm , and primex was the maker of the round in the early 2,000s so that is the most accurate and official information im going to go off of.
The length of the penetrator can never be equal or greater than the length of the entire projectile. And the projectile is comprised of additional elements other than the penetrator, it needs to house a ballistic/aerodynamic tip, a tail assembly with volume for tracer, etc. Most of APFSDS have to allocate about 100mm for these other parts that are not the penetrator itself. And surprise surprise, with a total length of up to 780mm, deduct those extra 100mm and you get…
If you don´t believe me you can try and measure the thing yourself.
And yes, theres almost no difference between penetrator length in M829A1 and A2. Main difference is the latter has a tip meant to improve penetration against ERA-equipped tanks.
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i dont know where you got this picture from, but its has chinese writing on it, then says M865, with some word at the bottom, im not saying you’re wrong, but im only going to go off something that has full detailed information, not a picture that could have been edited, unless you can tell me who made the image, and where its from im going to go with what i got from Primex Technologies ( the makers of the round ) , and information from ATK.
I will never go off a CCP estimation, for anything.
Perhaps this might surprise you but not every single Chinese person is a CCP agent. And most likely CCP doesn´t give a flying f*ck about long out of service ammunitions used by US Army 30 years ago.
What its written in Chinese is the source the author of the meassurement used, which is a patent regarding the M865 training ammunition. Sadly the author didn´t include anything in this picture that would help track down the document in question.
But if you are really that unwilling to give credit to this, heres actual M829A2. Meassure it, the dimensions match. And yes here the penetrator is exposed in the cutaway so theres not much room for creative guessing. If you otherwise want to save 10 minutes of your life, then take my word: the dimensions match and the penetrator is 21x680-690mm (depending if you want to include the stepped tip assembly or not)
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X for doubt.
it is also interesting to note how the autoloader doesnt generate spalling for some mysterious reason, meaning it provides some protection to the ammunition by absorbing spalling
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I love how there’s a double standard where a spinning cylinder on the Abrams and Leo (turret basket) will jam the horizontal drive, but a spinning cylinder like the Russian autoloaders which turn with the turret will not jam the horizontal drive whatsoever.
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Thats just not fair, especially when we consider that the Leo basket mostly consists of nothing (what exactly is blocking the traverse?), while the ru autoloader is pretty massive (Here, deformed metal sheets etc could definetly jam the traverse).
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Yep. Just last night I was comparing tanks and couldn’t help but to notice how small of an area the Russian tanks horizontal drive were compared to the US and it’s honestly laughable. I won’t even mention how much harder it was to get it to the black state compared to the Abrams…
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Its already a 30 second repair once you destroy the autoloader… destroying both would be a 50s repair at least… but “MuH BalAnce”
But you will have the ability to turn and get that shot in after which I’m not sure about the Leos but something that is not happening in an Abrams. One hit likely took out our breech, our mobility and we get to just sit there helpless as hell having to watch them finish you off. This happens regularly and I wouldn’t mind it as much of others were the same but that’s simply not the case.
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Same for the T90M and T80BVM…
That simply isnt the case I’m afraid.
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