5.0 is where the normal m4a1 76 is, wouldnt be fair. M51 is fine where it is, if it is lowered, only the M4A1 hull should be lowered
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I think 1.0 should be good for it, it cant pen anything rn
That’s how it should be, unfortunately all HEAT weapons are like playing roulette, in your case the roulette came out in favor of the enemy.
The tank isn’t for you and going down lower means you will be very domiant making it even unfair for low tier vehicle if you get downtier.
400mm pen is why it’s 6.0, and that’s probably too low to start with (however, I would say 6.7 is the absolute max it could realistically go but it would be fine at 6.3)
There’s also a 4.0 with 400mm pen HEAT.
lmao no. Saying it’s undertiered is even goofier than calling it overtiered.
No it’s not :
105 mm CN105 F1 cannon AMX-30;
105 mm M-51 cannon M-51;
they fire the same round OCC 105 F1, but the AMX-30 fires it at 1000 m/s instead of 800m/s;
the reason the amx -30 is 8.0, compared to the M-51:
- nearly double the hp/t ratio, 20 > 11.5;
- 65 kph with reverse gearbox, compared to 38 / 5 kph;
- 6.7s reload compared to 7.5s;
- 20mm coax;
- better traverse (hor) 30 > 24, (vert )5.5 > 4 degrees per second;
the JPN STA-1/2/3, type 61 come close, but are more versatile.
STA-1/2:
- better depression -10;
- faster vertical traverse at 6 degrees per second;
- better hp/t 16.5 compared to 11.5;
- worse HEAT round at 305mm, but fster at 853m/s;
- M82 APCBC round for side shots and through obstacles;
- less hull armour, equal turret;
- better mobility 45 /17 compared to 38/5;
- 11 round first stage, also for STA-3
compared to STA-3 / Type 61:
- even better hp/t 19 compared to 11.5;
- slightly better mobility 45 / 8 compared to 38/5;
- -10 depression;
- same reload and traverse stats;
- slightly better then STA-1/2 HEAT with 320mm and 1216 m/s;
- M82 APCBC round;
STA-3 has 6 second auto loader
-worse armor; - Type 61 has 22 round first stage;
compared to them the M-51 could maybe max go 6.3, but then the STA-1/2 are more mobile, faster and have a better variety of shells to choose from. Also they carry a 50 cal, which only the premium M-51 does. I played mine as a TD not a medium, it’s just to slow to react and the gun takes ages to stabilise.
can you frontally pen any heavy you meet, YES. Can the M-51 be penned by anything at it’s Br range YES, it’s the ultimate glass canon, it’s all the gun.
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Yes, the gun isn’t exact, but its the same round being fired with the same lethality and effictiveness. We are also talking about a 2.0 br jump, so yes, the amx30 has better mobility stats. Thats near universal across every vehicle.
Across every nation 320 pen heat round show up around 6.7 and 400 pen show up around 7.7. The only tanks with 400 pen at 6.7 have significant drawbacks (ontos, type 60). M51 is better than both, by a lot. HEAT’s postpen is determined by the remaining pen effect after penetration, which is why a 400 pen HEAT round is so much more lethal than a 305 or 320 pen.
The STA are the BEST 6.3 tank. Trying to say ‘oh well the sta is better at that br’ isn’t a justification for sitting at the same br considering you have a large pen advantage. The STA also have a pretty significant neutral steering turning issue that makes them unweildy at low speed. i’m amazed the sta 1/2 haven’t gone to 6.7 but its probably due to just the lack of statistics. Japan has been the lowest played nation for a long, long time. The M51 is easily equivalent to the STA 1/2 considering the poor postpen of the 305mm round.
Then get thrown into nothing by short-range brawling maps and lacking the mobility or armour to do anything else.
You forgot to mention the mobility that limits the spots you can reach.
Everyone is like “Just snipe bro”… Well, I would if I could zoom across the open ground to the 1 good spot…
But the M-51 is a massive, sluggish target with just the worst armour.
Honestly, it reminds me of the FV 4005. Can pen anything, but in every other respect is terrible.
Even the penetration doesn’t help most of the time. 76-85mm APHE can pen most things you will face. If you come up against a slow, heavy tank, fine, it’s a useful tank. But most teams (except Germany) are made up of mediums, which don’t really benefit from the high pen.
aaahh ofc, let’s make KV-1 and Chi-To face a 400mm HEAT shell with amazing turret traverse.
just play it like a Tiger II, bro.
then Somua SM should go to 7.3/7.0 cuz it’s first ammo rack holds only 8 shells, which is an absurdly low number. After firing these 8 rounds, your already mediocre reload time becomes even worse.
u don’t have to spawncamp the enemy to get a good camping position, and u have the same depression as a Tiger II which also has the same bad mobility.
no, it’s armament is not underwhelming. post-penetration damage is ok if u know how to aim (u can one shot a Panther with good aim), if u already played with HEAT shells u should already know when to shoot them and how to destroy obstacles so it doesn’t collide.
the HE is good for certain vehicles and the smoke shell is amazing to cover huge parts of the map and limit the enemy’s vision.
in conclusion, no: the M-51 is a tank that doesn’t restrict the player and doesn’t struggle at all competing against other vehicles. it has the highest-pen shell at it’s BR and higher, has amazing turret traverse, good depression, amazing reload for a 105mm cannon (most of them have a +10secs reload) and if u don’t like it then don’t play it.
u played 4 matches in the M-51, killed just 2 targets and instantly said “oh it’s bad” and came here to make this stupid post.
Why are people answering to comments from March 2025 :D
But really M51 is fine where it is. I would actually be more happy if it was like 6.7 because only reason to use the thing is to slap tanks like Tiger IIs and IS-3s. Against everything else I take my M1 76mm any day thank you.
Just brawl with m51 then, since u r so slow it and close distance u can actually fire right after braking like a normal sherman with stabilisers. I always brawl with m51 it just so much fun and it works up until 8.0 match. (some matches i do better with m51 than magach)
the whole idea of m51 is armour doesnt matter to both you and your enemy.
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It’s a perfectly functional tank, even against BR 8.0, thanks to its ammunition. The problem, and what keeps it at its current BR, is that the chassis isn’t very strong, it doesn’t have much mobility, and above all, the extremely random damage of HEAT shells. This causes many tanks with HEAT shells to have a low BR, even though they should be tanks with a higher BR.
If I were a developer, I would review the bullet damage model, eliminating the randomness to make it more realistic, and then properly balance the tanks.
They already face plenty of HEATs. M-51 won’t change much.
u serious?
Are you not aware of low-tier HEATs like the 400mm pen Ikv 103?
u talking about the one with paper armor, long reload, no turret and slow muzzle velocity? yeah i have heard about it, and nobody plays it, wonder why.
the gunner is literally exposed just like the crew of a M42 and u can kill it with a 7.62mm.
even more, if u turn around it u can kill up to 3 crew members since the optic empty space is huge and gives u a clear view of the gunner, commander and loader. plus all the crew is in a single, tiny space and u can kill it with ease.
u can even penetrate the sides with a 7.62mm if u’re close enough.
Like the M-51?
Like the M-51?
Like the M-51?
While we’re at it, the Ikv 103 has a smaller silhouette, 1.5x the hp/t, and 1.4x the max speed. The only advantage of the M-51 is a turret and abit more resistance to overpressure (most ppl don’t use HE at that BR anyways).
The M-51 isn’t the overpowered supersherman you think it is. HEAT is still finnicky, and there’s tanks that do exactly what the M-51 does but better, and at a lower BR. I would still consider the M-51 better than the Ikv 103, but if we’re being real, there’s not much difference between the two when you’re actually fighting one.