skill issue
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Might be even that who knows you are the expert here.
In seriousness, its just a unfortunate situation. Compression has been an issue for many years, and it is a complaint that has fallen deaf on developers ears for a decade. General player agreement is its better for a few select planes to suffer than a whole BR suffer. In this case, mig 21bis’s are fish food
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What can do the F104S do to a MiG-21bis? OK, what can the F-4E do to the 21bis in a 1v1? Can’t outturn it, can barely outrun it. It has all aspect missiles meaning it can hit you from any angle if you’re not paying attention.
What can the F-4F do to a bis? It doesn’t even get radar missiles. What can the F-8 crusader do? What can the J-7D do? (literally a mig21MF with better missiles at 11.0)
I’ve seen this cope topic about 21bis before. The bis is far from the worst 11.0 in the game. It has all aspect R60Ms at a BR where all aspects are rare. It has good acceleration. It has good performance at altitude. It’s a balanced plane. If you want to complain, it should be about BR compression. The MiG-21bis is in the best place it can possibly be without roflstomping everything at its own tier.
The solution to the F-5E problem is NOT downtiering everything else to 10.7 like the F-5E.
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Ah yes, because my Hunter F6 with no CMs at 9.7 needs to be facing Mig-21BIS with all-aspect missiles.
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You mean like this mig-21 cope post?
Plane is fine where it is.
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The 21bis stock grind IS extremely infuriating, but once you unlock the R-60 and most performance upgrades I think you’ll find it a lot more comfortable and capable.
Getting slapped by Phoenixes and Sparrows isn’t exclusive to the Mig-21. Every single aircraft is vulnerable to radar missiles. That’s why you, along with everyone else, stick to the deck until the match has been reduced down to a few enemies you can keep track of.
The Mig-21bis is a quirky jet than you need to get the hang of to make the most out of in 11.0. It’s perfectly capable at its BR, despite struggling against 12.0s. Moving it any lower would make it stupidly strong and ruin the game for any aircraft it gets downtiered against.
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Yes, I know you need to stick low, but when it doesnt even have enough countermeasures to survive the constant spam of IR missiles, since every jet has 6+ IR missiles, and most of them need more than one pop of flares to dodge, it still makes no sense for it to be at 11.0. Its too hot to survive a 9L within 2 kilometers, even after you turn off burn, and it turns too slow to dodge r-73s. The thing is a hot piece of garbage at 11.0, and it NEEDS to be at 10.7, where it will be COMPETITIVE! R-60Ms can easily be dodged by just popping a single pair of rockets at it, and it’ll easily be fooled by a salvo of rockets in rear aspect.
And for the dude who’s talking about the hunter F.6, you have snebs. Use them.
it doesnt even have enough countermeasures to survive the constant spam of IR missiles
The bis gets plenty of flare pops though. It actually has the same amount as the F-16 and Mig-29. If you get used to being glued to the ground you can also get away with not running chaff and bump up the amount to 60 which is well within excess. If you find that you are needing to avoid too many IR missiles then don’t go charging into their entire team. As fun as it is to go to the right side and head-on 16 enemies it will naturally result in having their entire arsenal fired your way. And even then, the Mig-21 has one of the colder engines in the BR range and it’s rare that you’ll need more than one pop to decoy a missile (with obvious exceptions like Magics and Limas).
and it turns too slow to dodge r-73s
You don’t face R-73s in 11.0 except against the later Su-25s, which can easily be denied optimal launch parameters every time.
it NEEDS to be at 10.7
Absolutely not. It’s perfectly in line with other 11.0s for now. And matching it up against 9.7s is ridiculous as in full downtiers at 10.0 it already dominates with few things to match it.
The bottom line is that the Mig-21bis isn’t a carry fighter. And that’s okay.
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F-16: fast, maneuverable, has the ability to fire better missiles, and a good gun
Mig-29: FAST, better maneuverability, can launch r-27s, and has a good radar
And not facing R-73s at 11.0 would only work if you FOUGHT AT 11.0! It NEVER sees its own BR, and decompression wont work, since even if it DOES get decomped, it’ll still be a shit platform at 11.0. Its only good in full downtiers, that it never gets. It is a litteral flying free kill.
And I need to add, I DO hug the ground, since if I fly any higher than the trees, I die to radar, but that leaves me unable to dodge any of the IR missiles, since I cant turn whilst hugging the ground, so I need to pull up, and I cant survive radar missiles if I’m not hugging the ground. Its contradictory.
dodge? to avoid most IR at that BR you just flare with afterburner off…
Yes. That’s why they’re 12.0 and the bis is 11.0
In almost all cases, especially in jets, an aircraft 1 BR above another will be better in every single way.
And not facing R-73s at 11.0 would only work if you FOUGHT AT 11.0!
Dude…
You don’t see R-73s in 11.0 no matter how hard you get uptiered unless you have a buddy that’s queuing up with you in a 11.7 vehicle. Stop embarrassing yourself.
unable to dodge any of the IR missiles
You have two other dimension while staying on the deck. And as the person above me said, rarely will you need to dodge that aggressively to defeat an IR missile, and if you do, you wouldn’t have dodged it anyway.
There are four vehicles that carry R-73s within the 11.0-12.0 bracket, those being the Su-25BM (11.0), Su-25T (11.3), Su-25SM3 (11.3) and Su-39 (11.7).
However, these are all Frogfoot airframes, meaning very marginal flight performance. They’ll be low and slow, and without an HMD they will struggle to get into positions where the R-73’s IRCCM works consistently. At longer ranges and outside rear/side aspect, they aren’t that hard to flare, even with limited flares.
They also only get two each, and are fairly rare in my experience due to their gimmicky nature. If you see them coming, it’s easily to trivialize them by just denying them a decent shot. I’d prefer to fight any of those over an F-16 any day.
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4 Su-25s have R-73s…
See my other post.
When?
Dude… You do see R-73s at 11.0, as well as OTHER IR MISSILES WITH IRCCM!
And 11.0 is 12.0 with extra steps.
Have you ever needed to dodge a missile with IRCCM? Since if you’re telling me you dont need to full turn, then you might not have fought a plane with IRCCM missiles.
In my limited experience playing the Bis-sau, I can say that its main issue is how frequently it gets uptiered to 12.0.
It is fine when compared to other 11.0 aircraft, but it is not fine when you are only ever facing 11.0-12.0 plane.
When what?