Little John Adaptor

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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Originally designed by a Czech called “Janeček” literally meaning “Little John”

The adaptor was used on 2 Pounder Guns and even on the U.S. 37mm guns.

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British Locust with Little John
(Future Battle Pass maybe?)

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Tetrach and Daimler with Little John

37mm APCNR (1100m/s)
Core Diameter: 20mm
Core Weight: 248g
Penetration:
118mm @ 0m at 0 °
28mm @ 0m at 60 °

2 Pounder APCNR Mk.1 (1280m/s)
Core Diameter : 16.8mm
Core Weight: 178g
Penetration:
140mm @ 0m at 0 °
33mm @ 0m at 60 °

2 Pounder APCNR Mk.2 (1190m/s)
Core Diameter: 20mm
Core Weight: 248g
Penetration:
132mm @ 0m at 0 °
31mm @ 0m at 60 °

Penetration wise… APCNR just like APCR act the same against armour, both having a sub caliber carbide core.

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The difference with APCNR is that it’s a lower diameter round than APCR which allows even greater velocity. It achieves this by having 2 “flaps”, 1 on each side. As the projectile goes through the little John adaptor, these flaps fold inwards which then allows the round to fit through the thinner adaptor. It’s the same philosophy as APFSDS. Those flaps act like a sabot, difference being that the flaps get folded inwards instead of getting discarded. Unfortunately due to the shape of the round and due to being a carbide, just like APCR it has bad performance against sloped armour.

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It would be nice, but only if you can mount and demount it during the battle (like taking 10s each, could be done like the mechanic for repairing your tank).
Since it is such small calibre, and acts like APCR, this mechanic is needed, because you only want this in the battle, when you really need it.
When your pen is enough with the regular gun, it is better use it that way.
Spamming APCR(ish) shells all game would be the definition of suffering.

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Very sad that Sweden gets APDS for their Rank 1 vehicles which they generally don’t need except when you use them as light vehicles in +3.0 BR battles.

Gaijin could probably just implement the little John as modification without changing anything about their BR. Even though having a light tank that can scout would be preferable.

The M22 with little John would be pure cancer though.
If solid AP actually detonated ammo instead of turning it yellow or orange, it could already be 5.0 or higher, just firing APC into the side of any medium tank.
It’s pretty much a Wiesel but having a cannon instead of a TOW launcher.
In a way, its a good thing that small caliber AP deals so little damage.

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Personally I would just make these new vehicles. It’s a massive jump in penetration on vehicles with decent rates of fire and shoulder stop “stabilisers”.

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Idk. The same vehicle copy pasted, just with the little John and one type of ammo?

I guess it would be one easy solution…

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How is it any different to something like the Jumbo? Literally just a gun change.

The other benefit is, if they add a Tetrarch (Little John) and Daimler (Little John) they could be high enough in BR to finally get scouting mechanics.

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Hmmm. I guess so.

Yeah, probably makes the most sense. More grinding but the benefit is having scouting and higher Rank.

Honestly a shame that we haven’t gotten them yet, when they are so easy to implement (95% copy&paste).

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So did you make a suggestion?

I really want them in-game, like yesterday actually xD

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It would be a significant jump in performance.
Considering how relatively uncommon these devices were in service, I don’t think that the vehicles in-game should get them and be moved up in BR. Maybe a foldered tech-tree vehicle, but that’s unlikely.
But a Tetrarch (Littlejohn) or even better a Daimler (Littlejohn) would be pretty perfect as the low-level reward for the next summer event.

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M22 w/little john adapter would be the greatest thing ever. They need to add this to the game.

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And here we have the Conqueror-syndrome again.
“look it has high pen, must be OP”

Ahm, no.
When will the community finally understand, that shell penetration is essentially meaningless in this game.

Currently ALL APCR, and a lot of T.carbide APDS are essentially uesless. They constantly shatter, and even if they pen, they deal essentially no damage. Even the Conqueror’s 120mm deals the same damage as the new swedish 57mm on at BR 3.7, or even like the 37mm APDS.

Now, you want for these tanks to get the adaptor.
The british 40mm guns are already mostly used with APHE, and a few high pen solidshot.

Recently i played with a lot of them for grinding some tanks i did not have at low tier.
Even on the Churchill 1, APHE is still good enough, and if it need more pen, the soldshot with 89mm pen is enough.

The only case higher pen is needed are against KV-1, StuH, StuG III G, and M4s.
Lets investigate!
KV-1:
Since the adaptor would shoot APCR, the front of the tank is not pennable, even at close range unangled.
Gun matlet is out of question. The only place it could go through is the turret cheeks. The issue is, that crew is so far away from that, that it would deal literally no damage to the crew.

StuG/H?
Driver’s port/Loader’s port is covered with track, so it would just shatter.
Just shoot the cupola with APHE. Of wait, you can’t with the adaptor.

M4s?
Upper plate is out of question due to the angle.
It could only pen te early trash turrets.

The only somewhat meaningful way this could be added is by allowing to equip and upequip it during the battle.
Like you stop, press a button, and it gets equipped in like 10s. Same for unequiping.

If it is added as a permanent thing (like a separate tank), they would be utterly useless.

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They should just be modifications for the Tetrarch, the M22, and the Daimler. It’s literally just screwed onto the barrel. There’s nothing special or unique about it, in the sense that it required some immense modification to use.

It wouldn’t be overpowered, either. The post-penetration on it would absolutely suck, on the levels of what the squeezy boi (Sd. Kfz. 221) has.

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Sure, but it is a massive jump in penetration. Using Gaijin’s calculator you’re looking at around 148mm on the APCNR Mk 2 shot. Compared to 89mm on the APCBC on the regular 2-Pdr or 90mm on the APCR the Sd.Kfz.221 has.

A tetrarch or daimler with a little john would be far better than the German squeeze bore armoured car.

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The M22 is 2.0, the Sqeeze boi more like 0.7 or 0.5. It’s one of the least effective vehicles in the game since it doesn’t have a turret and can get killed by machine guns.

With the little John both M22 and Daimler can disable heavy tanks from the side, which would mean a big jumb in BR.

The Swedish Pz. 38(t) is 2.7 with 37mm APDS and is nowhere near as mobile as these two.

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Dude, they don’t need it, not even in a full uptier. They rarely even need the solidshot, the APHE is just good enough.

They already are.

Tell me which heavy tank it can’t disable from the side, with it’s regualr ammo.

And it is an APDS, which os better than APCR, yet it absoluetly sucks after they nerfed it.

A conclusion:
There are maybe 1 in a 100000 cases where the adaptor can be useful.
if it is added as a modification, then it should be able to mount and demount during the battle for that 5 shots you need to do.

If it is a permanent thing, then it’s BR should be LOWER, not higher, because it just makes a good gun useless for the reasons of:
1, constant shattering on every bloody crap on a tank
2, trash angle pen
3, absolutely zero damage even if it pens
4, no APHE

This is the definition of the so called “Conqueror-syndrome”. What is it?
When players look at a tank’s shell’s penetration, and they get crazy seeing that it has high pen, and fail to realise that everything else just absolutely SUCKS on the tank.
Want a few examples?
Sure:
Ikv 103
Swedish 37mm tanks with APDS
Pvkv IV
Challenger (the 17 pdr one)
Charioteer
Centurion mk 3/5, Caernarvon, FV 4202
Conqueror
Conway
Sturer Emil
Dicker Max

All these are in lower BR than where they should be according their pen is because they are trash tanks.
The only exception is the Emil, because it jus should go up in BR, that gun is just too good for it’s BR, and it sucks, because everything loads faster.

When will you guys understand that penetration is NOTHING.
If it were so important, then things like the Jumbo would be unplayable. but it is not. Why? Because the platform is good, and despite it having trash pen, it makes up with it being APHE.
Another example from a different side:
You know why is the Churchill 7 only at 4.7, despite having more armor than the Jumbo?
Because the platform is utterly trash, and the armor only exists on paper, and despite having the same M61 shell, the british one lacks HE filler, while it is awfully slow, and has more trapshots/weak spots than an entire tech tree.
Last example:
Just look at the Achilles. It has way more pen than the M10, but the M10 is actually good, while the Achilles is just bad.
Oh, another one on that way: The Archer. A Whole BR lower than the Achilles, yet it is also a piece of trash, despite having 190mm pen at 2.7.

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British recce squadrons had 7 a/c’s - 1 for HQ, 2 in each of 3 scout troops - if they really had 1 with LJ then that’s 3 out of 7 with LJ… that’s not all that uncommon!

See https://www.battleorder.org/uk-reconsqd-wwii

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It’s a massive jump in penetration, but it would practically be a needle and force it to only use the APSV. I can’t see how it would affect the BRs of either the Tetrarch or the M22 when it has those cons, and the only benefit being the high penetration.

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it would have to be in the British TT as the US never even used the M22. it was specifically designed for para regiments to drop in with them and as far as im aware they wre the only ones to use little johns on them

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I’m not seeing any mention of the Littlejohn in the source you linked. I’m not saying that the Daimler itself was rare, but that as far as I know few were equipped with Littlejohn.
There doesn’t seem to be available information on its production numbers, and very few of the historical photos of Daimlers and Tetrarchs in the Normandy campaign (after the Littlejohn had entered service) I’ve found have an adapter attached.

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My guy I gotta disagree with the Chally, Charioteer, 20pndr bois, Conq, Conway, and Achilles. Those are all excellent vehicles. The mediums and heavies on that list in particular are some of my favourites due to their firepower and versatility.