If the Bagel’s Hubschrauber-Warngerät sensor works similarly, we should be getting a lead indicator.
At least from what ive heard it essentially some microphones tuned to pick up the direction of a helicopter and its approx. Range, and a camera to detect its location. Theres conflicting reports on whether it offered any irst functionality. But seeming as it was an early 70s design id wager to bet its unlikely but plausible.
There is nothing directly, except it fitting way too well.
There is also this further information about the ammunition (note the APFSDS missing, its development likely wasnt finished when the Brochure was published (11/'77))
Note the AP being both heavier and slower. This roughly lines up with the Model 1967 AP and its slightly reduced propellant charge…
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All that we know about the heli thingie is from the respective patents, which are somewhat … theoretical.
Its developed by Zeiss and probably Eltro Gesellschaft für Strahlentechnic, although I never found the exact link. Eltro seems to have been a partial subsidiary of Zeiss, but it has been fully absorbed in the 1990s, so information is rare.
Its based around a thermal sensor working in a wavelength somewhere around 10 μm. The biggest differention to ADAD is the way of rejecting false targets:
The Begleits system watches for signatures that change their intensity, like it is caused by the rotor of a helicopter being more or less visible to the observer depending on how its rotated.
The microphone thing is a possible variation using unidirectional microphones for identification, although the Bagel itself wasnt planned with it
Spoiler
microphones were the numbers 18 to 20, note that the Begleit doesnt have that separate device
But ALL patents (there are like 5 of them) mention the same
“calculated azimuth and elevation angles are automatically fed to the fire control computer. Simultaneously the weapon as well as targeting and observation devices are being trained on the targets position” or
“In further and advantageous forms of construction of the invention the signals which come from the individual channels and contain information on the direction and, if required, also on the modulating frequency and, consequently, the type of helicopter located can be analyzed by a digital computer and signals fed to a fire control computer and be used to direct a suitable sighting and/or defensive means.” (thats ONE sentence btw)
To me that sounds alot like IRST
It also was reported on old forums, but we were told to write a suggestion instead. And those were all purged in the great forum swap
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Guys I want to create a topic on Indien-Panzer on the ru forum, can someone help with the information (I know Russian)
Found a reddit thread from close to a year ago talking about a possible BR for the Bagel if it gets it’s missing HWS and APFSDS. On the forums, a user by the name of Sugarstudd paid Thyssen-Henchel archives for the missing pages of the pamphlet/brochure. He got all of the missing pages but not the last page containing the ammunition types because it contained info that’s classified.
Bae system also said pretty much the same thing in a email, the ammunition is now classified.
A lot of images that were on the old forum were completely purged, God that’s annoying.
There was a page containing information on its performance, here;
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Do you have the full page by any chance?
Dont forget that the bagel has the ability to shoot HOT missles as well
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Yes, but pdf files cannot be uploaded to the forum, from what I know at least.
Boutta turn the Bagel into the DOOM slayer
Can we get east germany ZSU-23-4 (Shilka), after the BR changes most german tanks at 7.7 and 7.3 got moved to 8.0, germany don’t have a competitive SPAA at that BR and uptiering the 8.0 line-up to 8.3 to use the Gepard is not worth it sinc you will be uptiered to 9.3 most of the time.
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dont know about you, but i am doing great with the wiesel and the marder versions, the laser does nicely in hitting plans that fly by or want to head on you, with the thermals you can spot them early on as well
Of course the shilka would be nice as well, just saying isnt as important as some other nations spaa holes
I wonder if this is enough information for them to add the APFSDS round…
Yes but not every plan is going to do a low pass fly by or a head one on you plus the point of SPAA is not only to protect your self but to have a good control on air and prevent CAS from killing your team and i believe a radar SPAA with good guns at 8.0 will serve thst purpose
The mans found it. Honestly i dont even know WHERE to look for some of this infornation on these old prototypes. Most of my info comes from whats already been found by the secret project forum.
Ok this is satisfactory. It does appear to reference both types performances.
Im glad my doubts were able to be cleared.
Yeah thatll likely be my post. That post was complete speculation based on rumors i had heard that the bagel had apfsds and a helicopter warning system. I had no clue on where to look for info back then and still dont now. Heck if i look up (begleitpanzer 57 apfsds) or (bofors 57mm apfsds) that post is one of the top search results same with the forum post i made.
Absolutely awful that trying to find info on something just leads to your own posts.
Is the information provided by the brochures sufficient enough for a bug report? I’d like to make one regarding the HWS and APFSDS, worried mods will cough up some excuse about it being insufficient.
Theyve nerfed tanks with far less info in bug reports. So i see no reason why they couldnt buff a vehicle with little info.
Look at what they did to the t25, removed its stabilizer completely off hearsay. Despite people proving that the version in game was in fact the stibilized version.