Lets talk about the state of Germany

Machinery of War Discussion
7366

Why would a French HAD Tiger necessarily have to be a premium helicopter in the German tree?

After all, the Tiger UHT was simply integrated into the French tree.

The Tiger HAD was developed in the same way as the Tiger UHT.

Before the Tiger UHT, including its armament, was finalized in the program, France dropped out. Both the PARS and the aircraft were pre-production models undergoing testing. The PARS was not fully developed and only achieved ranges of 4 km in firing tests in the TRIGAT program.
(The reports on this were used to push the Tiger UHT into the French tree.)

Under the circumstances, Germany could also receive a 12.0 Tiger with Spike, Mistral, and gimbal cannon. There is no obstacle.

BTW. Why are the German and French UHTs in the same BR?

The performance difference between the Mistral and the ATAS is probably more noticeable than a machine gun on the roof of a WW2 Tiger tank, which justifies a BR increase of 0.3.

1 Like
7367

The German top-tier lineup is competitive for the first time since the 2A7V and EF2000 were introduced.

The numbers simply say so.

Previously, the WL ratios were comparatively poor.

Before the nerf, they were on par with the Russian tree.

Now, nerfs are hitting the Leo and the EF2000, while Russia has received new CAS toys.

So yes. You’re right. A lineup competitive with the Russian tree was too strong for the developer.

Incidentally, the Leos were actually better than the T tanks. Since, in return, the Russians can spawn aircraft that can destroy six Leos in one approach without requiring much skill, the situation was balanced overall.

7368

not to mention that the PT3R (the UHT airframe that was painted in french colors and trialled as a pseudo HAC and later returned to germany) was only mounted with RWR at max. the MAWs sensors had never been integrated nor had the airframe been modified to receive those special sensors.

7369

2A7HU is a sidegrade at best over the 2A7V, it’s not a “better 2A7” lmao.

1 Like
7370

you have never played it have you?

it has better armour. that alone makes it * better *

7371

Ironic coming from you, the 2A5 was the highest Leo in your profile when I checked and you do horrible in that.

But to answer your question, yes I own both the 2A7V and 2A7HU.

They have identical armor.

Unless you mean the additional roof armor, which is actually a downside more than it is an upside.

1 Like
7372

Pretty sure the last time i fought a 2A7VHU they suffered from Tusk/122 scope syndrome since ive killed a few by hitting the 50 cal with a 125 HE. Such an easy target.

1 Like
7373

The .50 cal is actually not that much of an HE magnet, it’s too far back to generally do much damage to the crew.

It’s the add on roof armor, if you hit that with russian HE you overpressure the 2A7HU turret crew. Same as with the Strv 122s.

1 Like
7374

didnt claim that i had it but fair point i didnt need to mention whether you have played it or not

should have*
aside from the add on roof armour.

the 2A7V has had armour bugs since it was introduced which effectively made it weaker than it was supposed to be

1 Like
7375

Huh, i dont play my Russian lineup enough honestly to practice those types of shots but good to know. I just always had a easier time hitting those tanks with roof HE over the standard Leos though the occasionally commander sight kill with HE does happen.

1 Like
7376

the turret baskets really make no difference to the gameplay loop at all, any shot that hits the turret “basket” which only has a damage model on teh floor and in the turret ring, would disable part of the tank regardless.

Its only advantage? it was absolutely kerb stomping mate, and its not only the german one that got it, the EF2000 is still one of the top contenders for the best top tier.

7377

Considering the slop that is the F18’s yeah its fairly hard to be worse then those lol. Though its pretty crazy the performance gap from other fighters over the Rafale.

7378

an amazing light lineup still loses to an amazing mbt lineup

7379

the F15E and I are also really good top tier contenders man, the F18 was never meant to be at top tier meta plane, it was never gonna beat rafale or typhoons.

7380

That’s simply not true. Shooting at the Leopard’s LFP renders the horizontal aiming drive unusable now.
Poorly placed shots to the side now also destroy the horizontal jib drive by causing a spall.

Both are bad shots that now leave you defenseless.

The really bad shot from the front now takes out the driver and the turret. And thus becomes the best shot you can take.

In GRB, the EF2000 is definitely not the best top-tier jet.
It’s definitely not a bad CAS and excellent for countering CAS.

But I’ve never seen an EF2000 destroy six ground targets within 10 seconds. Have you?

7381

Still waiting on the track blowout fix the for only “top tier” light vehicle for the tree.
Still waiting on MELLS to actually work
Still waiting on AHEAD to actually work
Still waiting on SPIKE/PARS flight rework to actually top attack
Still waiting on PARS proxy

3 Likes
7382

It’s very unlikely. As this was always intended to be an 11.0 premium and it was advertised as such. Many people will have purchased it on that basis. Spikes would require a + 1.0 BR increase.

1 Like
7383

This is a Spanish HAD. Not French. This was the only suitable and viable candidate for the premium gap.

HAC, the French variant was added to the French tree. There is plenty of documentation and evidence for this variant.

7384

i disagree. LTs contribute just as much if played to their strengths. not to mention they allow for a much faster time to bring CAS

7385

Wasn’t saying F15s weren’t. The F18’s are just bandages so gaijin doesn’t have to fix the BR compression probelms and give 1 nation a actually competent fighter for another year.