Lets talk about the state of Germany

[Zitrone3_2]

@An_Pigeon

Talking about winrates at top tier has always been a falacy and a silly thing to do as a justification for vehicle perfromance bar the most egorious additions.

Absolutly if we nerf or buff things by winrate and kd again we end up with insane powercreep like one the MiG-21S (R-13-300)

[An_Pigeon]

Thats also why the likes of merkava mk4, ariete are higher than m1a2

[H_ngma]

@An_Pigeon

I don’t understand why people try ignore it, italy has consistently had one of the highest win rates at higher BRs and their tanks and equipment are widely considered some of the worst in game?

That leaves one mitigating factor split two ways, italian players are a cut above, as well as big 3 nation players tending to be worse gives them more worse players.

Which is why no one with a brain compares minor nation stats to major nations stats. This is nothing new.

@An_Pigeon

Talking about winrates at top tier has always been a falacy and a silly thing to do as a justification for vehicle perfromance bar the most egorious additions.

Not really, winrates itself might not be the best metric but winrate changes are especially if you look at them side by side with vehicle performance statistics.

@An_Pigeon

Also it kinda does change points you’ve made on how players play the game when you yourself are below average.

It really doesnt if you actually read and understand the arguments i made since none of them is based on my personal experience or anything. In fact its usually the likes of you and Ghost who bring up their personal experience and treat them as a fact when they are completely irrelevant for a game with millions of games each month.
But like i said to Motorola above, it doesnt matter you guys are not gonna change your mind no matter the argument.

@Zitrone3_2

Absolutly if we nerf or buff things by winrate and kd again we end up with insane powercreep like one the MiG-21S (R-13-300)

genuinely what kind of metric would you apply to decide whether something needs a nerf or a buff? Objective dev opinion?

[NER055]

No need to nerf . Just make things more realistic like puma and leo2a7v real armour. Also with some new interesting vehicles.

[NER055]

As for skill reasons of win rate. I think it can’t change by one month. Someone just receive something that breaks balance and other doesn’t have counterparts…

[H_ngma]

Well according to the elders in this thread its actually because of an illustrious cabal of players that are statistically inconspicuous most of the time except when an update comes out and then they flock to one tree and swing the winrate and performance massively. Coincidentally these players are always playing the exact tree that got something objectively strong that update and for some reason thats supposed to be a more likely explanation than “Gaijin is just terrible at balancing when it comes to new additions.”

[Zitrone3_2]

@H_ngma

genuinely what kind of metric would you apply to decide whether something needs a nerf or a buff? Objective dev opinion?

Stats + community poll + common sense

[H_ngma]

@Zitrone3_2

community poll

I feel like that would give the big 3 a disproportionate advantage

@Zitrone3_2

common sense

Now youre just being unrealistic

[Zitrone3_2]

@H_ngma

Now youre just being unrealistic

Why i think someone that sees the SU-30mk2 can say it needs to go up in BR for grb no matter if they see stats or a poll

@H_ngma

I feel like that would give the big 3 a disproportionate advantage

True i haven´t though about that, but it would still give a rough sketch if the community wants something.
They can also make the polls on the forum or based on it so when you vote they could make a graph or take the data of what nations players voted for. So if they see only German mains vote for a buff for a vehicle they know its maybe not wanted

[H_ngma]

@Zitrone3_2

Why i think someone that sees the SU-30mk2 can say it needs to go up in BR for grb no matter if they see stats or a poll

I meant that as a joke but common sense does go out the window quite quickly in this community when it comes to their favourite plane, expensive premium etc.

@Zitrone3_2

They can also make the polls on the forum or based on it so when you vote they could make a graph or take the data of what nations players voted for. So if they see only German mains vote for a buff for a vehicle they know its maybe not wanted

Good idea but that would be work for Gaijin tho so it wont happen. Also the forum is just a miniscule amount of the entire playerbase

[_Renzo]

The irony is when the US winrates were bad it was “hehehe US players bad” instead of the 2A7/122 being dominant, now it’s suddenly different when it’s Germany.

[H_ngma]

@_Renzo

now it’s suddenly different when it’s Germany.

No its not, why do you people always make up points in your head that no one brought up

[An_Pigeon]

@H_ngma

No its not, why do you people always make up points in your head that no one brought up

Eh we read the same 7000 comment thread yeah ?

@_Renzo

The irony is when the US winrates were bad it was “hehehe US players bad” instead of the 2A7/122 being dominant, now it’s suddenly different when it’s Germany.

Which they will somehow deny and make it about equipment.

[H_ngma]

@An_Pigeon

My name? what about it?
It’s a typo due to the word aggrevated not being able to be used.

Because discussing with you is like playing chess with a pigeon im sure you know the rest of the saying.

@An_Pigeon

Because more of the good players from minor nations have migrated to Russia?
As well as “meta” chasers?

Are you aware how high the number of extensively good players would need to be to cause these kinds of performance swings?

@An_Pigeon

US bad? what the tree or the players? cause the players certainly do suck mate.

Yeah so do germay players and ussr players which why you can compare the 3.

@An_Pigeon

I see what’s happening here, you’re a German main, who has terrible stats, who fits the narrative of what we’re talking about xD

Whats happening here is that you created your own narrative where, in your eyes its more likely that there is a statistically significant number of very good players that swing performance of tech trees every update instead of Gaijin just being insanely terrible at balancing new additions which break the balance every single update.

@An_Pigeon

then why are you on a forum where people discuss mitigating factors and such? which obviously there will be disagreements.

Well because there are some amazing and knowledgable people here that you can have great discussions with, sadly they are severely lacking in this thread rn

[An_Pigeon]

@H_ngma

Because discussing with you is like playing chess with a pigeon im sure you know the rest of the saying.

I’m well aware of the phrase, however insulting as you may try to be, it isn’t changing what has been said at all. Due to this snide remark alone I won’t be responding to you.
as well as this,

• We do not start a sentence with “because”. As it is a subordinating conjuction which joins two clauses. which means the clause it introduces is “dependent” and cannot stand alone as a complete sentence. Remember that before you try insult the intillegence of others.

@H_ngma

Are you aware how high the number of extensively good players would need to be to cause these kinds of performance swings?

Yes I am well aware of it, there’s around on avarage 100 thousand players daily on the game, off of peak times , right now there is exactly 161037.

If you’d bothered to read the second half of my states, the META chasers, you’d realise that makes up a large portion of people who’m are playing.
Now at top tier it is even more prolific, so the MI28 which, as has been said to you, by I believe @MotorolaCRO , was alrady in game and owned by a large majority of helicopter players. Then it is simple that they would get the LMUR missile on that before grinding out a whopping four hundred thousand RP for the AH64.

Now if we take into account, that it is more meta to do the faster grind for the modification rather than a whole damn helicopter then the results become pretty academic.

The Ah64E for example still rinses lobbies, it’s just there’s far fewer of them.

@H_ngma

Are you aware how high the number of extensively good players would need to be to cause these kinds of performance swings?

You also realise that the vast majority of players in TTs’ aren’t using helicopters right?

So claiming that the addition of the helicopters to Russia etc created these vast differences in winrates goes against your own argument.

@H_ngma

Yeah so do germay players and ussr players which why you can compare the 3.

An Pigeon:

Ah but you cannot compare the win rates from minor nations ? why not? because they are better with worse kit?

so yeah the use of stats to talk about the kit is invalid.

@H_ngma

in your eyes its more likely that there is a statistically significant number of very good players that swing performance of tech trees every update instead of Gaijin just being insanely terrible at balancing new additions which break the balance every single update.

Yes it’s far more plausible that people change trees , for getting what they want be it a su30, a EF2000 , a leopard 2a6 or 7 or whatever than saying that one helicopter has increased the winrate substantially.

Considering the vast majority of ground players rarely use helicopters, as is seen in game it’s not like it was years ago when there would be 6 helis a team floating around smashing lobbies.

@H_ngma

Well because there are some amazing and knowledgable people here that you can have great discussions with, sadly they are severely lacking in this thread rn

Says the man who cannot handle being told his ancedotal evidence or theories are wrong without having a little tizzy on his own?

Please.

In fact, due to your attitude + the insult, I’ll no longer be continuing this nonsense. Good day.

[H_ngma]

@An_Pigeon

We do not start a sentence with “because”. As it is a subordinating conjuction which joins two clauses. which means the clause it introduces is “dependent” and cannot stand alone as a complete sentence. Remember that before you try insult the intillegence of others.

Apologies, english is my third language, sadly im not aware of every gramatical rule but ill remember for next time.

@An_Pigeon

So claiming that the addition of the helicopters to Russia etc created these vast differences in winrates goes against your own argument.

How so? The Mi28NM has a quarter of the games played that the T80BVM has and is the USSR vehicle with the highest winrate at 63.3%, you can absolutely make a case that its the main driver of USSR performance the past month.

@An_Pigeon

Ah but you cannot compare the win rates from minor nations ? why not? because they are better with worse kit?

so yeah the use of stats to talk about the kit is invalid.

Its not if the general player skill is similar.

@An_Pigeon

Considering the vast majority of ground players rarely use helicopters, as is seen in game it’s not like it was years ago when there would be 6 helis a team floating around smashing lobbies.

Not true anymore, the MI28NM has more games past month than the BUK, helis are not

@An_Pigeon

Says the man who cannot handle being told his ancedotal evidence or theories are wrong without having a little tizzy on his own?

You have to be trolling at this point. Ive not made a single statement based on anecdotal evidence. You are the guys who constantly bring up their own experience as evidence or use statshaming to try to discredit arguments.
Please do not continue, its not like we were moving anywhere. For someone seemingly interested in war machines you seem to be rather soft huh?

[An_Pigeon]

@H_ngma

For someone seemingly interested in war machines you seem to be rather soft huh?

Yet another insult against a person you know absolutely nothing about , yet you want anyone to listen to you?
You’ve no idea who is soft or not, as well as some gall to sit and try call others idiots while you, yourself act like a child.

@H_ngma

Not true anymore, the MI28NM has more games past month than the BUK, helis are not

An Pigeon:

what isn’t true anymore?
the BUK isn’t exactly extremely used either.

Plus the stats you’re pulling from statshark aren’t exactly that reliable , 3rd party sites never are.

@H_ngma

You have to be trolling at this point

No I am not trolling, I just don’t bother when an absolute child types up stuff like this
“TALKING ABOUT SKILL ISSUE WHILE COMPARING MAJORS IS MOOT, BECAUSE THE AVERAGE MAJOR PLAYER SUCKS THATS WHY THE US SUCKS, GERMANY SUCKS AND USSR SUCKS THAT IS WHY YOU DONT COMPARE THE 3 MAJORS TO MINOR NATIONS STATISTICS WISE THATS THE FUCKING POINT OF THE ENTIRE DISCUSSION RN. WHY THE HELL GERMANYS AND THE US PERFORMANCE AND WINRATE DROPPED AND RUSSIAS WENT UP LIKE A T90 TURRET IN EASTERN EUROPE.”

Then expects anyone to bother their bollocks to remain in a conversation with them.

Ah as well as this you are now flagging my replies?

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@H_ngma

TALKING ABOUT SKILL ISSUE WHILE COMPARING MAJORS IS MOOT, BECAUSE THE AVERAGE MAJOR PLAYER SUCKS THATS WHY THE US SUCKS, GERMANY SUCKS AND USSR SUCKS THAT IS WHY YOU DONT COMPARE THE 3 MAJORS TO MINOR NATIONS STATISTICS WISE THATS THE FUCKING POINT OF THE ENTIRE DISCUSSION RN. WHY THE HELL GERMANYS AND THE US PERFORMANCE AND WINRATE DROPPED AND RUSSIAS WENT UP LIKE A T90 TURRET IN EASTERN EUROPE.

Stop yelling.

[H_ngma]

@An_Pigeon

Yet another insult against a person you know absolutely nothing about , yet you want anyone to listen to you?
You’ve no idea who is soft or not, as well as some gall to sit and try call others idiots while you, yourself act like a child.

Insult, my god dont get your knickers in a twist over a wordplay on your name, jesus.

@An_Pigeon

what isn’t true anymore?

That helis are unpopular, like i said Mi28NM a quarter of the games of the most popular MBT thats not a small amount.

@An_Pigeon

Plus the stats you’re pulling from statshark aren’t exactly that reliable , 3rd party sites never are.

Ofc once the stats dont agree with you they become unreliable…

@An_Pigeon

Then expects anyone to bother their bollocks to remain in a conversation with them.

Was any of that wrong tho? But glad to see that you dropped the part where you accused me of using anecdotes probably because you noticed that it was bs.

@An_Pigeon

Ah as well as this you are now flagging my replies?

Nope, not me. I used all my flags on PLA16 or whatever his name is

@Ghost_of_TelAviv

Stop yelling.

sorry

[Ghost-King]

Guys i highly prefer that you took these matters to DMs if possible.