You’re forgetting a lot of players wanted Danish F16’s just because of CAS, also Argentina because they are to receive Danske F16AM’s and they wanted Polish F16’s. It wasn’t just about A2A though. It was CAS, which currently the EFT is in a very rough spot when it comes to CAS. I assume we’ll need to wait for gaijin to add new SPAA before they power creep them again with the next update having triple the range CAS munitions.
I think its fair to keep the thread up to discuss current problems the nation has but it does occasionally get boring when i check to see if any actual problems are mentioned with bug reports or suggestions and rather its just hate being pushed left and right. Welp im gonna bounce my opinion will likely get me some lovely messages if past experiences are anything to go off of.
well appart from coping and a few offtheme here and there, i got some extra info on the boxer skyranger 30 A3 the variant the german army is gonna be adopting
It started as a general complaint place for problems with Germany, especially in response to a dearth of content or updates for Germany. Thus, while Germany has now received some new content, this is still the main place to discuss whatever problems Germany might have, whether these are new or old.
So this thread isn’t really discussing the “State of Germany” as it was when it was created, but rather the State of Germany as it is now, and will be discussing the State of Germany as it is in a year or two years.
No way you think France gets better treatment than Germany
Let’s look at the AMX-40, Leclerc, all of the lower BRs that gimp France’s guns to save German tanks, the only saving grace in all of France right now is the Rafale. It’s not France who got the Alouette II, a French helicopter, as its first, no, it got the borderline worthless H-34 that’s already missing 2 AS.11s, it wasn’t France who got the DF-105 and Germany who had to wait 4 years, and it wasn’t Germany who’s Boxer got gutted to be 9.7, it was France’s Vextra
? Not that I’m aware of.
L/52 is 662mm 60 degrees. 331 /cos 60.
And L/44 is 618mm 60 degrees. 309 /cos 60.
A 7% increase in penetration for 18% more barrel length.
That’s within expectations, unless you’re talking about something else.
Though it’s possible that 7% shouldn’t be as high and should be closer to 3 - 5% increase over L/44.
Well it doesn’t change the fact that the ‘French’ Tiger UHT was in fact the german Tiger UHT no# PT3/98+23, which was handed over to France for testing. After that they handed it back to Germany and its currently located in the Heli museum in Buckeburg, Germany. Just as info, it was also the Tiger airframe which was part of James Bond movie ‘Golden Eye’.
So, after all its kind of strange that FRA got it added as TT vehicle. With more loadout options and better AA missiles. Also with fully developed TRIGAT missiles, which irl were never finished. France bailed out before any of this could have been completed.
Result: The nation which adopted the Tiger UHT has a worse heli than France, who just tested it for a time and bailed before the ATGMs were even fully developed. At least thy could have granted german UHT the same loadouts…cause its a german heli??!
Where is the logic? Fra already had a top tier Tiger heli. There was not Gap…
I don’t get Gaijin’s decision making here either. But it’s not a great thing either; the Akeron LP, AH-64E NL, or even just making the AH-64D as TT were better options for the sake of variety, and for the Akeron, even superior missiles
It’s a questionable choice but in no way shows bias unless you use it for confirmation biases
You could even say ‘it would have been a lower BR with its vast nerfs and thus improve the lackluster pre-toptier lineups’ and that it would have helped MORE
Pretty sure its a bug, thought someone made a bug report for it and linked it but i might be wrong. If anyone makes a new bug report ping me so i can help bump it for tech mods to see
Germany received the Leopard PSO at the same time as France received the Leclerc AZUR.
The 2 are identical: they are downgrades of the previous MBT, sidegrade of the one before.
Gaijin reassured the Germans, big speech promising them more vehicles, and the next update I believe they received their latest Leopard.
France has had nothing but silence on the subject and no more Leclercs, despite 6 proto to add before the S1, and multiple to add after.
I hate the choice of giving us (France) a few Leopards, they don’t add anything (worst, remove originality), they don’t help the gaps that Gaijin says he’s “working” on. I’d have preferred a fix for the Leclercs, or more Leclerc (which are probably the most power-creeped MBTs in the game)
or more homemade vehicle (or at worst original stuff from BeNeLux)
On the subject of EMBTs, for me it’s simple: for Germany AND France. Both could get a line of the different models of EMBTs to come, for the 2 countries. These are cooperative projects after all.
Then the 2 countries will have their own in-house variants at the end of the main MBT line, like the KF51 for Germany, and the Leclerc Evolution for France.
The 2 countries have no shortage of choices for the future of the ground TT, with cooperative projects in one hand, and solo projects that set them apart (and keep some originality) on the other.
We can only hope that Gaijin treats everyone equally there.
What you want, i just talk about it because it’s the last one showed that i know about, end of the day it’s just for saying both have stuff to come for the future.
First time i see a German talking bad about the KF51 tho, that’s surprising x)
I want you to be always up to date on German stuff /j
Nah tho, Germany’s future is stacked even without the KF series (reminder that only the IFV is worth something, the MBT is just a dressed up 2A4 hence).
2A8 - > Leo 2 ARC - > Leo 3 (130mm btw).
Heck, we can have an upgraded 2A7V in the future too, since BAAINBw has contracted the development of MUSS 2.0+ for it, and it can allegedly make even the Kornet shit itself.
Spoiler
Bundeswehr commissions development of 130mm ammunition and new protection system and engine for Leopard 2 The Bundeswehr has commissioned the companies KNDS Deutschland, Rheinmetall and Hensoldt with technical studies to develop a more powerful engine, 130 mm ammunition in various types, a new type of protection system and an automatic field adjustment system for the Leopard 2 main battle tank. This is the result of several announcements by the Bundeswehr procurement office BAAINBw, which were published today on the European online procurement platform TED. According to well-informed sources, the developments are to form the basis for a modernization package for the Leopard 2 main battle tank (also known as the bridge solution, Leopard 2 AX or Leopard 3), which is intended to bridge the gap until the introduction of the multi-platform system developed from the Franco-German Main Ground Combat System (MGCS) project. According to insiders, the bridge solution - which is adapted to the current threat level in terms of performance and will have additional capabilities compared to the A8 - is to be introduced from the 2030s onwards, with a service life of around 25 years apparently planned. The exact specifications of this type of main battle tank will probably only be determined once the results of the various technical studies are available, which according to BAAINBw reports on TED will be completed at the end of 2026.
3.More effect* According to BAAINBw communications, Rheinmetall has been commissioned with a total of three technical studies aimed at developing three 130mm ammunition types for the Leopard 2. Specifically, a 130mm DM13 ammunition is to be developed, which is to serve as qualification ammunition for the future tank gun. This large-caliber tank gun is the main armament of the main battle tank. It is therefore clear that a 130mm cannon is being sought for the “bridge solution”. “In the given project time, an ammunition is to be developed that will serve to qualify the tank gun. The aim is to keep the cost and time frame as economical as possible by designing this ammunition specifically for the qualification of the weapon,” writes the BAAINBw on TED. The two further technical studies are intended to finalize the development of the DM11 (multifunctional ammunition (HE)) and DM23 (kinetic-energy (KE) ammunition) for the future 130mm tank gun. Rheinmetall first presented the prototype of the 130mm smoothbore cannon with 52 calibre lengths and a length of around 6.6 meters at the Eurosatory arms fair in Paris in 2016. According to the company at the time, the eight percent increase in caliber leads to a 50 percent increase in kinetic energy compared to the 120 mm gun of the Leopard 2. This weapon was also developed by Rheinmetall and has been installed in thousands of tanks worldwide over the years. The presentation in Paris came at a time when Russia had unveiled a new generation of armored vehicles - including the new Armata main battle tank - with improved protection and announced its introduction into the armed forces. The 130mm gun shown at the time weighed more than 3.5 tons compared to the approximately 3 tons of the 120mm gun and uses a cartridge of more than 30 kg and approximately 1.30 meters in length. Due to these parameters, the gun can only be used with an automatic loader and a new turret design. At the time, Rheinmetall engineers were told that it would probably take another eight to ten years to complete the development of the weapon and ammunition. The prototype presented in Paris was a firing demonstrator that had been created following extensive simulations and studies. According to Rheinmetall, it uses a mathematical model with 50 parameters for further development, three of which are set and 47 are varied in order to determine the optimum configuration of the weapon. Two key parameters are the energy delivered to the target and the accuracy at a certain distance. According to Rheinmetall’s estimates, the weapon should be highly accurate up to five kilometers. According to the manufacturer, more than 1,100 simulations were carried out during development. Two further technical studies concern the development of a field adjustment system for the Leopard 2 main battle tank, which were awarded to Hesonldt on the one hand and KNDS Germany on the other. The contract award description for Hensoldt simply states: “An automatic field adjustment system is to be developed to improve the capabilities of the KPz LEOPARD 2. The development result is to be demonstrated in a KPz LEOPARD 2. The development result must be suitable to form the basis for use in all LEOPARD 2 variants with L/55 weapon system (120mm), regardless of the fire control computer variant.”
The description of the study awarded to KNDS Germany is much more detailed. According to this, KNDS is to develop an automatic field adjustment system “to increase the precision of direct action”. “The large-caliber tank gun is the main armament of the main battle tank. The LEOPARD 2 weapon system introduced in the Bw has a manual field adjustment, which is carried out by the gunner. The aim is to correct precision-reducing thermal influences on the weapon barrel, e.g. due to solar radiation or firing loads,” says the BAAINBw description. “As the weapon is continuously exposed to these influences, regular adjustment is necessary. In order to relieve the crew and enable them to perform other tasks during field adjustment while minimizing the process time, automation is to be developed,” the BAAINBw continues.
6.More mobility* In order to increase the mobility of the Leopard 2, KNDS Germany has also been commissioned to develop an alternative engine called “OLYMP”. According to well-informed sources, the engine itself will not come from MTU - the previous engine manufacturer for the Leopard 2 - but from Liebherr. This would be a novelty, as Liebherr has so far supplied engines for the Marder 1 infantry fighting vehicle (Marder 1A5 service life extension) and Lynx KF41, but not yet for any main battle tanks. The BAAINBw description states: “The engine block refers to the self-contained unit consisting of the combustion engine, steering/manual gearbox, cooling system, combustion air filtration and exhaust system. Interfaces to the chassis are the engine mounts, the side gears, the connections to the control system and fuel supply and the engine compartment cover. As part of the study to increase the agility of the drivetrain, an alternative engine (combustion engine) is to be developed. As many components of the existing system (identical parts) as possible are to be used. The testing of individual components up to the demonstrator test should take place in the vehicle provided.”
8.More protection* In addition to increasing effectiveness and mobility, the “bridge solution” should also have an improved level of protection, which is apparently to be achieved by integrating a combat-value-enhanced variant of the MUSS (Multifunctional Self-Protection System) developed by Hensoldt. Hensoldt presented the further development of MUSS 2.0 at Eurosatory in the summer of 2024, which is also used in new Puma infantry fighting vehicles, among other things. Compared to the previous version, MUSS 2.0 is characterized by less weight and a smaller silhouette while at the same time increasing its capabilities. The system consists of four passive sensor heads, each with a missile and laser warning sensor, a central unit, an advanced laser-based infrared jammer and a countermeasure unit for emitting pyrotechnic decoys. According to the press release, the sensor network enables the system to detect threats such as wire- and laser-guided missiles (anti-tank guided missiles, ATGMs for short) as well as tracer rounds, bazookas, muzzle flashes and projectile fire (KE). MUSS 2.0 is also capable of accurately detecting and classifying low-power lasers, such as those used in beam-riders and second-generation laser rangefinders. ATGMs in particular can be disrupted by the IR jammer and thus defended against, as Hensoldt writes. The data collected by the system can therefore be fed into the “Battle Management System” in order to better combat the threat. According to the manufacturer, MUSS 2.0 can detect several threats at the same time, prioritize them according to their danger and combat them semi- or fully autonomously. The ability to adapt the threat database ensures a continuous increase in combat effectiveness in order to counter future threats. KNDS Germany has now been commissioned by the BAAINBw to "equip the extension of the Multifunctional Self-Protection System (MUSS) to the Leopard 2. What is important in this context is that it will be a significantly more combat-worthy variant of the MUSS, with capabilities that even the MUSS 2.0 does not have. “The MUSS is an electro-optical sensor/effector system that is to be expanded to include optical detection capability,” the BAAINBw press release states. “As the optical detection is based on the physical principle of the cat’s eye effect, the functionality of the MUSS can be adopted. The service description includes the integration of the further developed system into a KPz LEOPARD 2A7 in order to realize the optical detection capability,” the BAAINBw continued. The optical detection capability would be a globally unique protective element of which nothing is publicly known to date. The brief description and the reference to the cat’s eye effect could indicate the following functionality. The main battle tank could actively “illuminate” its surroundings and detect and classify reflections generated by the advanced MUSS optics. Theoretically, even well-camouflaged combat vehicles or reconnaissance systems could be reconnoitred in this way, as the respective observation optics must remain “clear”.
