Lets talk about the state of Germany

[An_Pigeon]

@Jεcka

The Germans didn’t use the DM43/A1 at all, they ditched it for LKE II which is better known under the designation DM53.

Yeah was trying to figure out what the LKEI and II difference was, didnt want to make a stroking statement of it being a totally different round.
Thought that the LKEII would be the DM43A1, nice to know its actually DM53

@Jεcka

So a Polish Leopard 2 (which the 2PL is), using ammunition REJECTED by Germany in favor of a better design, and never used by Poland either (they use DM63A1 fun fact), has to cope with an underperforming projectile… isn’t this just great?

Yeah like I said spanish avenger informed me on the 2PL not actually using the DM43 at all due to wanting a better round. Which is why for me it is strange it actually has Dm43, like you say, quite ironic.

@Jεcka

Fair! My apologies.

I know folks get an attitude on here, defending or arguing about their respective TT stuff, im actively here out of curiousity.
As a disclaimer I dont main any specific nations either btw.

@Jεcka

Lets be honest, we’re way past the point where TT uniqueness has been a major focus of Gaijin’s. France will eventually receive the Leopard 2A8 for example, Germany will eventually share a co-designed Leo x Leclerc hybrid with France, etc, maybe Gaijin will even pack the Leclerc EVO into the German TT just for lulz.

The issue I have with this is, france didnt need them at all, they could of just actively fixed the massive issues with leclerc that the baguette boys made reports on, and then leave the 2a5, 2a6 and subsequently A8 out of the tree and added them to the german tree with the netherlands, seeing as the dutch army is so intergrated with the german one.

@Jεcka

Germany will eventually share a co-designed Leo x Leclerc hybrid with France, etc, maybe Gaijin will even pack the Leclerc EVO into the German TT just for lulz.

Now this I wouldnt mind seeing in both trees as a sort of heres the shared stuff weve done together, like the DF105 and the little AMX13 thing.

rather than just ooh italy suffering? Leopard, france? nah leopard.
it gets tiresome, i started and each tree was actually unique bar stuff liek china low BR and that but that is inevitable.

@Jεcka

Brr cough … decompression where… it’s been 23 years Gaijin, just give us 13.7 in GRB already…!

Decompression has actively been worked against with the most recent patches btw, GRB desperately is ignored for it, and ARB they be stuffing the F16 and F18 at 12.3 is wild af xD

@Jεcka

Yes.

And moving on as I dont want to draw out a crowd of people screaming the abrams is the owrst tank in game.

(btw USA actually has some banging lineups from 7.7 to 11.7, cant say 12.0 as i dont technically have 12.0 yet but got the M1A2)

[Armen_Lozone]

@An_Pigeon

I mean, its been pointed out witb sources its a modified tiger for france.

if by modified you mean repainted…
the airframe itself is a UHT and was returned to gemany. still is in germany in a museum AS a UHT

[Pheonix_RX01]

@Jεcka

You do know OFL 120 F1 of the Leclerc IS DM43, right? -,-
And it’s been performing as it should ever since 2019 or so, whereas Germany’s DM43 is still underperforming on the 2PL, despite 2 reports having been filled since 2021, both accepted btw.

To be fair its likely gaijin wont buff it as it would cause a change in BR. Gaijin does this quite often and it wouldn’t suprise me if gaijin purposely implemented things in a weaker state than they should so they fit certain BR’s.

[Mizzar1529-live]

why is people still using this thread? i remember it was used a lot when germany literally had nothing for a lot of updates and was left behind, till EF2000 was added and others and i think it finally fixed it. the other problem was the massive copy paste of leopards for other nations(but nothing we can do about it) or when gaijin added the Dutch f16s to other nation instead of germany, i think Germany is very nice right now, it only needs a better spaa like any nation except Russia.

whats the point people are talking or debating right now? there is so much mixed things like some guys talking about the french rounds(? other talking about abrams rounds(? im lost

[Pheonix_RX01]

@Mizzar1529

gaijin added the Dutch f16s to other nation instead of germany

You’re forgetting a lot of players wanted Danish F16’s just because of CAS, also Argentina because they are to receive Danske F16AM’s and they wanted Polish F16’s. It wasn’t just about A2A though. It was CAS, which currently the EFT is in a very rough spot when it comes to CAS. I assume we’ll need to wait for gaijin to add new SPAA before they power creep them again with the next update having triple the range CAS munitions.

I think its fair to keep the thread up to discuss current problems the nation has but it does occasionally get boring when i check to see if any actual problems are mentioned with bug reports or suggestions and rather its just hate being pushed left and right. Welp im gonna bounce my opinion will likely get me some lovely messages if past experiences are anything to go off of.

[Jεcka]

@Pheonix RX0@live

To be fair its likely gaijin wont buff it as it would cause a change in BR.

It would go from 532mm → 561mm

We’ve better tanks with more pen already at its BR.

[_Renzo]

@Mizzar1529

why is people still using this thread?

Because Germany will always suffer according to a lot of German mains.

[Pheonix_RX01]

Yeah but you’re forgetting the most important factor which is gaijin logic

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

Indeed. We have Arietes at 11.7 and 12.0…

[UnHolySausage]

well appart from coping and a few offtheme here and there, i got some extra info on the boxer skyranger 30 A3 the variant the german army is gonna be adopting

[WolfgangTheSecon]

It started as a general complaint place for problems with Germany, especially in response to a dearth of content or updates for Germany. Thus, while Germany has now received some new content, this is still the main place to discuss whatever problems Germany might have, whether these are new or old.

So this thread isn’t really discussing the “State of Germany” as it was when it was created, but rather the State of Germany as it is now, and will be discussing the State of Germany as it is in a year or two years.

[MademoiselleSXXI]

No way you think France gets better treatment than Germany
Let’s look at the AMX-40, Leclerc, all of the lower BRs that gimp France’s guns to save German tanks, the only saving grace in all of France right now is the Rafale. It’s not France who got the Alouette II, a French helicopter, as its first, no, it got the borderline worthless H-34 that’s already missing 2 AS.11s, it wasn’t France who got the DF-105 and Germany who had to wait 4 years, and it wasn’t Germany who’s Boxer got gutted to be 9.7, it was France’s Vextra

[AlvisWisla]

@Jεcka

but for Germany? It’s been underperforming for years now.

? Not that I’m aware of.
L/52 is 662mm 60 degrees. 331 /cos 60.
And L/44 is 618mm 60 degrees. 309 /cos 60.
A 7% increase in penetration for 18% more barrel length.
That’s within expectations, unless you’re talking about something else.
Though it’s possible that 7% shouldn’t be as high and should be closer to 3 - 5% increase over L/44.

[Jεcka]

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/jyWW3cdU9BRm

@MademoiselleSXXI for you too ;)

[AlvisWisla]

Appreciated. <3
Thank you, Jecka.

[MademoiselleSXXI]

Seems valid enough

[Thodin]

Well it doesn’t change the fact that the ‘French’ Tiger UHT was in fact the german Tiger UHT no# PT3/98+23, which was handed over to France for testing. After that they handed it back to Germany and its currently located in the Heli museum in Buckeburg, Germany. Just as info, it was also the Tiger airframe which was part of James Bond movie ‘Golden Eye’.

So, after all its kind of strange that FRA got it added as TT vehicle. With more loadout options and better AA missiles. Also with fully developed TRIGAT missiles, which irl were never finished. France bailed out before any of this could have been completed.

Result: The nation which adopted the Tiger UHT has a worse heli than France, who just tested it for a time and bailed before the ATGMs were even fully developed. At least thy could have granted german UHT the same loadouts…cause its a german heli??!

Where is the logic? Fra already had a top tier Tiger heli. There was not Gap…

[MademoiselleSXXI]

I don’t get Gaijin’s decision making here either. But it’s not a great thing either; the Akeron LP, AH-64E NL, or even just making the AH-64D as TT were better options for the sake of variety, and for the Akeron, even superior missiles

It’s a questionable choice but in no way shows bias unless you use it for confirmation biases

You could even say ‘it would have been a lower BR with its vast nerfs and thus improve the lackluster pre-toptier lineups’ and that it would have helped MORE

[Aserkill]

Didn’t gaijin recently nerf the Maus by removing the internal armor around the fuel tanks and infront of the engine?

[Pheonix_RX01]

Pretty sure its a bug, thought someone made a bug report for it and linked it but i might be wrong. If anyone makes a new bug report ping me so i can help bump it for tech mods to see