I mean, its been pointed out witb sources its a modified tiger for france.
Germany doesn’t really need it.
Im of the opinion we should stop just spreading the same vehicles into the game resulting in copy and paste and get actual indigenous vehicles.
Not a helicopter user or nation user so no biases on it.
Which is currently modeled the exact same way as a post-2013 upgrade for the German UHT/KHT; the ought to remove Asgard features and lower the TRIGAT range to 5km’s, then we can talk.
Somehow France gets away with having their stuff modeled to the available specification(s), even DM43 which was primarily developed by Germany’s Rheinmetall under the LKE I program as part of the KWS I program for the Leopard 2, is coded per specifications for France, but for Germany? It’s been underperforming for years now.
The French love to whine about how badly they’re treated and how vocal the German/British mains are, but ironically, they’re treated so well compared to us, and yet they cry vastly more than any of us.
What? France gets DM43? though the 2a5 and 2a6 went DM33 > DM53?
As well as this its the first I’ve seen someone say that the French leopard has a different round, ontop of that It’s not a French Leopard 2 they are dutch
Who is this collective “us” ?
The French tree is pretty stupid, some tanks are fantastic at certain BR’s then they shaft other stuff, rather than fix the leclercs the chose to ram in the dutch leopards and so on and so forth.
you got tanks like the Char 25T sitting at 8.0 which is ridiculous and the somau SM sittin at 7.7.
Thus my point at the end as far as I was aware, so then implement said changes and boom done.
Won’t argue it, but dont just fill every tree with the exact same stuff.
On top of that, the Helicopter is made by Eurocopter airbus, which isn’t just German so why say the Tiger is a German helicopter?
You do know OFL 120 F1 of the Leclerc IS DM43, right? -,-
And it’s been performing as it should ever since 2019 or so, whereas Germany’s DM43 is still underperforming on the 2PL, despite 2 reports having been filled since 2021, both accepted btw.
On top of that, the Helicopter is made by Eurocopter airbus, which isn’t just German so why say the Tiger is a German helicopter?
I didn’t, don’t ask me that question, because by doing so you’re just putting words in my mouth. I said that the ASGARD upgrade is German, it is the reason why the UHT has been renamed KHT after 2013, and yet, for some reason a pre-production prototype is modeled to the same specs for the French, even a prototype of a weapon is modeled to the same exact specs as the finished product, even though Gaijin’s own sources (as shared by Smin), state it should have significantly worse range.
UHT should even have the Mistrals because it’s been seen with them before, yet it doesn’t, lmao.
The OFL 120 F1 is directly DM43? or a french iteration of it ? aka an equivelant, its the first time ive every seen someone say the OFL 120 F1 actually is Dm43.
As well as that the leclerc sits at 12.0 with DM43 equivelant as its top tier round while the DM43 on the leopard 2PL is a lower BR.
This is a gaijin issue though isnt it, they always do this malarkey with bug reports, got some on CR2 and chieftain about the same.
Eh then why bother playing france at all at that stage for the heli pilots.
Should rephrase it and say why are people saying the helicopter is german, not that it was german apologies.
I do agree with what you said it should lose the asgard and be made in line with how it is IRL
Literally exact same projectile.
Die Ende der 1980er Jahre begonnenen Arbeiten zur Modifizierung des Panzers Leopard 2 im Rahmen der ersten Phase des Kampfwertsteigerungsprogramms (KWS) setzten die Einführung einer Kanone mit verlängertem Rohr (L/55) und neuer Munition voraus. Während sich die Entwicklung der Kanone selbst, die als billigere Alternative zur völlig neuen Kanone des Kalibers 140 mm gedacht war, etwas hinzog, wurde die Munition für die Kanone, die eine bessere Zielbekämpfung auf Entfernungen von über 2.000 m sowie eine höhere Durchschlagskraft ermöglichen sollte, recht schnell entwickelt. An ihrer Entwicklung war das französische Unternehmen GIAT beteiligt, da sie auch für die 120-mm-Kanone CN120-26/52 des Leclerc-Panzers als wichtiges Mittel zur Bekämpfung schwer gepanzerter Ziele vorgesehen war. Die 1994 eingeführte Patrone DM43/43A1 (LKE I, Leistungsgesteigerte Kinetische Energie I) hatte ein Wolfram-Sinterkerngeschoss mit einer Anfangsgeschwindigkeit von 1740 m/s. Die Kernlänge betrug 574 mm, der Durchmesser 23 mm (Streckung ca. 25:1) und sie konnte Panzerungen mit einer reduzierten Dicke von bis zu 590 mm durchschlagen. Diese Munition ging in Produktion, wurde aber nicht in die Bewaffnung der Bundeswehr aufgenommen, die den mit der DM43 erzielten Gewinn an Durchschlagskraft im Vergleich zur DM33 für zu gering hielt. Sie wurde auch in Frankreich eingeführt, wo sie von GIAT (später Nexter) unter der Bezeichnung OFL 120 F1, jedoch mit einer anderen Treibladung, produziert wurde.
tl;
Work on modifying the Leopard 2 tank as part of the first phase of the KWS (Kampfwertsteigerungsprogramm) combat capability enhancement program, initiated in the late 1980s, assumed the introduction of an extended barrel (L/55) cannon and new ammunition. While work on the cannon itself, intended to be a cheaper alternative to the brand-new 140mm caliber cannon, dragged on somewhat, the ammunition for it, intended to provide better target-fighting capabilities at distances of more than 2,000 meters, as well as increased penetrability, was developed fairly quickly. The French company GIAT was involved in its development, as it was also envisioned as an essential means of combating heavily armored targets for the 120 mm CN120-26/52 cannon of the Leclerc tank. Introduced in 1994, the DM43/43A1 (LKE I, Leistungsgesteigerte Kinetic Energie I) cartridge had a tungsten sintered core projectile with an initial velocity of 1740 m/s. The length of the core was 574 mm, its diameter was 23 mm (an elongation of about 25:1) and it was capable of penetrating armor of reduced thickness up to 590 mm. The ammunition went into production, but was not introduced into the armament of the Bundeswehr, which considered the gain in penetrability achieved with the DM43 to be too small compared to the DM33, but its production was nevertheless launched for export. It was also introduced in France, where it was produced by GIAT (later Nexter) under the designation OFL 120 F1, but with a different propelling charge.
The only difference between them is German vs French propelling charges (which WERE produced to the same specification ANYWAYS).
Eh then why bother playing france at all at that stage for the heli pilots.
Spikes?
Chaingun?
Hello?
Why even bother playing the German heli TT at this point? France has a UHT. This goes both ways, and Germany getting the Mistrals doesn’t take away from things France will still have.
As well as that the leclerc sits at 12.0 with DM43 equivelant as its top tier round while the DM43 on the leopard 2PL is a lower BR.
And yet the 2PL sits at a BR with Abroomzes that have either M829A1, M829A2, or KE-W, all of which are vastly superior to the anemic version of DM43 that Gaijin has coded. I also don’t see why it shouldn’t be fixed just cus it’s not top BR like the Leclerc… THEY’RE ONLY 0.3 BR APART BY THE WAY, they both fight 12.0s all day long.
Was just reading this there, nice info mate didnt know that so there you go.
Though isnt the DM43A1 what the germans used over the standard DM43? as it says they didnt adopt the LKE 1 in the snippet you shared?
Told you I don’t use the helicopters, was genuinely here asking about it.
Not at all, but it is again bit by bit removing uniqueness from the trees themselves.
I do have the 2PL and the Dm43 I do properly enjoy, the tanks quite nice to use ,works well with the 2A5 and 2A6.
In all honesty @SPANISH_AVENGER makes a great point that the 2PL should be using DM53 anyway, so realistically it should get it and be 12.0, but doubt itll happen.
Lets be honest, the M1A2, A1 HC and such at 11.7 with a top tier round, 5 second reload, decent armour and great mobility is a bit stupid xD not gonna derail the post with it but I have them and believe the A1’s should lose the M829A2 round and get A1 back, stay 11.7 and the M1A2 move to 12.0 where it should be
Never meant that at all, If anything the first Leclerc could be 11.7 (or give the 2PL proper gear and move it up).
The Germans didn’t use the DM43/A1 at all, they ditched it for LKE II which is better known under the designation DM53.
So a Polish Leopard 2 (which the 2PL is), using ammunition REJECTED by Germany in favor of a better design, and never used by Poland either (they use DM63A1 fun fact), has to cope with an underperforming projectile… isn’t this just great?
(That last bit is sarcastic btw)
Told you I don’t use the helicopters, was genuinely here asking about it.
Fair! My apologies.
Not at all, but it is again bit by bit removing uniqueness from the trees themselves.
Lets be honest, we’re way past the point where TT uniqueness has been a major focus of Gaijin’s. France will eventually receive the Leopard 2A8 for example, Germany will eventually share a co-designed Leo x Leclerc hybrid with France, etc, maybe Gaijin will even pack the Leclerc EVO into the German TT just for lulz.
Lets be honest, the M1A2, A1 HC and such at 11.7 with a top tier round, 5 second reload, decent armour and great mobility is a bit stupid xD not gonna derail the post with it but I have them and believe the A1’s should lose the M829A2 round and get A1 back, stay 11.7 and the M1A2 move to 12.0 where it should be
Yes.
Never meant that at all, If anything the first Leclerc could be 11.7 (or give the 2PL proper gear and move it up).
Brr cough … decompression where… it’s been 23 years Gaijin, just give us 13.7 in GRB already…!
Yeah was trying to figure out what the LKEI and II difference was, didnt want to make a stroking statement of it being a totally different round.
Thought that the LKEII would be the DM43A1, nice to know its actually DM53
Yeah like I said spanish avenger informed me on the 2PL not actually using the DM43 at all due to wanting a better round. Which is why for me it is strange it actually has Dm43, like you say, quite ironic.
I know folks get an attitude on here, defending or arguing about their respective TT stuff, im actively here out of curiousity.
As a disclaimer I dont main any specific nations either btw.
The issue I have with this is, france didnt need them at all, they could of just actively fixed the massive issues with leclerc that the baguette boys made reports on, and then leave the 2a5, 2a6 and subsequently A8 out of the tree and added them to the german tree with the netherlands, seeing as the dutch army is so intergrated with the german one.
Now this I wouldnt mind seeing in both trees as a sort of heres the shared stuff weve done together, like the DF105 and the little AMX13 thing.
rather than just ooh italy suffering? Leopard, france? nah leopard.
it gets tiresome, i started and each tree was actually unique bar stuff liek china low BR and that but that is inevitable.
Decompression has actively been worked against with the most recent patches btw, GRB desperately is ignored for it, and ARB they be stuffing the F16 and F18 at 12.3 is wild af xD
And moving on as I dont want to draw out a crowd of people screaming the abrams is the owrst tank in game.
(btw USA actually has some banging lineups from 7.7 to 11.7, cant say 12.0 as i dont technically have 12.0 yet but got the M1A2)
if by modified you mean repainted…
the airframe itself is a UHT and was returned to gemany. still is in germany in a museum AS a UHT
To be fair its likely gaijin wont buff it as it would cause a change in BR. Gaijin does this quite often and it wouldn’t suprise me if gaijin purposely implemented things in a weaker state than they should so they fit certain BR’s.
why is people still using this thread? i remember it was used a lot when germany literally had nothing for a lot of updates and was left behind, till EF2000 was added and others and i think it finally fixed it. the other problem was the massive copy paste of leopards for other nations(but nothing we can do about it) or when gaijin added the Dutch f16s to other nation instead of germany, i think Germany is very nice right now, it only needs a better spaa like any nation except Russia.
whats the point people are talking or debating right now? there is so much mixed things like some guys talking about the french rounds(? other talking about abrams rounds(? im lost
You’re forgetting a lot of players wanted Danish F16’s just because of CAS, also Argentina because they are to receive Danske F16AM’s and they wanted Polish F16’s. It wasn’t just about A2A though. It was CAS, which currently the EFT is in a very rough spot when it comes to CAS. I assume we’ll need to wait for gaijin to add new SPAA before they power creep them again with the next update having triple the range CAS munitions.
I think its fair to keep the thread up to discuss current problems the nation has but it does occasionally get boring when i check to see if any actual problems are mentioned with bug reports or suggestions and rather its just hate being pushed left and right. Welp im gonna bounce my opinion will likely get me some lovely messages if past experiences are anything to go off of.
It would go from 532mm → 561mm
We’ve better tanks with more pen already at its BR.
Because Germany will always suffer according to a lot of German mains.
Yeah but you’re forgetting the most important factor which is gaijin logic
Indeed. We have Arietes at 11.7 and 12.0…
well appart from coping and a few offtheme here and there, i got some extra info on the boxer skyranger 30 A3 the variant the german army is gonna be adopting
It started as a general complaint place for problems with Germany, especially in response to a dearth of content or updates for Germany. Thus, while Germany has now received some new content, this is still the main place to discuss whatever problems Germany might have, whether these are new or old.
So this thread isn’t really discussing the “State of Germany” as it was when it was created, but rather the State of Germany as it is now, and will be discussing the State of Germany as it is in a year or two years.
No way you think France gets better treatment than Germany
Let’s look at the AMX-40, Leclerc, all of the lower BRs that gimp France’s guns to save German tanks, the only saving grace in all of France right now is the Rafale. It’s not France who got the Alouette II, a French helicopter, as its first, no, it got the borderline worthless H-34 that’s already missing 2 AS.11s, it wasn’t France who got the DF-105 and Germany who had to wait 4 years, and it wasn’t Germany who’s Boxer got gutted to be 9.7, it was France’s Vextra