But my point is why? Why does Germany so desperately need them? Why not the PUMA with Spikes, which is infinitely better? What makes the KF so appeasing that THAT is what you need over something domestic and in service?
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Notice the difference here; we ask for vehicles that will either;
A) Fix a capability gap there’s no domestic answer for
B) Were actually developed for Germany
2AV ain’t a fit for either.
But hey, if you wanna go down that rabbit hole we can also ask for F-18 & F-15s since WTD 61 trialed them.
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There is a domestic answer. That’s ridiculous.
The 2AV was intended for US service and modified as such.
And
I have seen multiple threads with people asking for this or stuff like this. So that rabbit hole is very much already being explored.
KF41 is one of the fastest tracked vehicles and keeps some interesting stuff between it’s gameplay ability being able to play more aggresively and reach positions faster than the PUMA + it looks cool as heck specially greek/ australian version and one issue with PUMA S1 is that it can only carry 2 spikes meanwhile KF41 can carry 4 or more
Give me an example of Germany’s domestic answer to Su-27s & F-16/F-15C’s that could be added right now.
The 2AV was intended for US service and modified as such.
I’m tired of Freeaboos propagating this misconception at this point. Leopard 2AV was from the very beginning intended for German service (it’s even called “2nd generation prototype” ffs), and was modified to fit it after the Yom Kipur War showed that first generation prototypes lacked in protection (did you ever look at the PT-14/16? cause that’s a predecessor to the 2AV/PT-19 and it was already packing composite armour), the only actual modification carried out to make it “fit for US service” was the 105mm gun because Germany always favoured the 120mm.
I have seen multiple threads with people asking for this or stuff like this. So that rabbit hole is very much already being explored.
Funnily, most if not all of them aren’t German players (mostly Brits) who bring those jets up as “consolidation prize” while arguing why Germany shouldn’t receive a sub-tree.
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Glad to hear we don’t think the PUMA exists, given that’s what I was talking about and it is very clear that that is so. You are intentionally removing my post from the context provided.
Also;
But still a modification, no? Still with US intentions in mind?
A. That’s simply not the case as I have seen a variety of German players request them and B. Because the Brits are right! Germany doesn’t need a sub tree, nor does the US or Russia.
Its a video game. No one really needa anything.
The main point you cannot understand is the right of claim.
Which is held by germany first and everyone else later (becauze germany is the developer).
You were talking about domestic plane options and he talked about domestic plane options don’t try to change theme of conversation to your convenience
Modification for US trials not for US service and as far as i know it didnt enter service with the US either
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Glad to see you can’t read.
But still a modification, no? Still with US intentions in mind?
Kay, Abroomz for Germany via Switzerland - they trialed it. Then again, right of claim - Germany first (developer, trialed and eventually put it into service after further modification), then the US, and since Germany already received it…
Also;
You seriously think ICE is as good as the F-15 & F-16Cs? Point taken, deconstructing your points is a waste of time cause you don’t believe you’re in the wrong at all.
That’s simply not the case as I have seen a variety of German players request them
“It came to me in a dream”
Because the Brits are right! Germany doesn’t need a sub tree, nor does the US or Russia.
True, nobody really needs anything, however unlike your beloved US, “we” have no proper answer to 4th generation jets until the EFT (denied by Smin for the forseeable future).
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No, we weren’t. If you follow the conversation, it’s in relation the the German KF41 in German service. Not once did I bring up anything in relation to top tier aircraft except immediately after you asked. If you follow the trail of quotes and replys, you will see it all is in relation to the KF41. I am not changing it to my convenience - you are simply wired out of your mind because someone disagrees.
Yes. Modded for US trials. For the US. For America. Therefore. American by the logic of earlier where “but we trialed it”.
I love how you can’t see that the “we trialed them” post about US jets was entirely sarcastic and nobody here wants 'em… so lets get this straight, you fail to detect obvious sarcasm (“if we wanna go down that rabbit hole”), take the obviously not meant to be taken at face value statement at face value, and counterclaim it via the 2AV because your botched intepreration of our arguments allows you to, this is next level.
The German tree doesn’t necessarily need the KF41.
I would like to have a current PUMA with all working components.
I could imagine that a Lynx variant could be added to the tree as an event vehicle or something similar.
It would then be useful, but ultimately not much more than an alternative to the PUMA S1 or the VILKAS.
So my priorities are more on the PUMA and the Sykranger Boxer. Maybe the snail will be merciful and get ahead of the IRIS T SLS Boxer. The prototype will probably not arrive until 2028.
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Average German Main response
When Germany gets a Swiss subtree, sure. Maybe then Gaijin will fix the turret ring.
No, however it is a domestic option that competes, even if relatively poorly. All you asked for was competition; not good competition.
If you look over the forums it will take you practically no time to find the posts. Not that I expect anyone to as it does not serve your narrative.
And when the EFT comes, what should the US get? An F-18 that has no chance of competing? When we cry then (because admittedly, we will) should we ask for a sub tech tee or something so we can procure a better jet?
This I’m ok with.
No when You were talking about domestic PLANE options with furina he answered to you that there are no real domestic options for germany, and F-4F KWS isnt comparable to an F16 or F15 or Su27, but then yoi answered to his argument by talking of the PUMA when he was talking about planes with HIM
Im gonna say it because you also seem to ignore the fact that sweden, and Britain had no competative fighters against the mig 29 and f16 for about a bit more than a year. Italy had starfighters for a long time against other much more capable fighters. Honestly this is just one of those events. I hate when gaijin does it but its not an exclusive thing to germany.
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Of course you could, US developed them and has every right to them. That being said difference for the F104 as example. US has other F104 variants. While germany still lacks their KF41 variant simple as that
That one falls out of gajins rules, since germany as main developer is in the game
Sweden is just an exception to those rules because it is so much smaller
And you are right for that, still doesnt stop us from demanding it. If we are heared enough we will get them at one point. it is as Simple
Thats a whole other issue. We are talking about the lack of a vehicle. You think the KF41 is modelled well or is super strong in the game? It isnt we are asking for a mediocre vehicle at best if anything.
Its gajins fault for not modelling vehicles right. But again like i said whole other issue compared to the lack of a vehicle
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Considering you’ve managed to completely miss the point of my “there’s no domestic answer” and managed to bring the Puma into the fray, as much as “average german main” reponse it is, fortunately, it holds true.
No, however it is a domestic option that competes, even if relatively poorly. All you asked for was competition; not good competition.
Then it isn’t an “answer” to them, like I’ve already said “give me an example of a domestic answer” which implies a vehicles at the same capability level…
If you look over the forums it will take you practically no time to find the posts. Not that I expect anyone to as it does not serve your narrative.
Oh I’ve many times before, and always it’s the Brits.
And when the EFT comes, what should the US get?
Hmm…
- F-16V
- F-15E/X
- F-18C/E/F
Geee, so many options that are all at the same level or relatively close to properly compete in all regimes.
When we cry then (because admittedly, we will) should we ask for a sub tech tee or something so we can procure a better jet?
You’re just pulling at straws now by pretending future US jets won’t be able to match the EFT in terms of capability, even though all of them can and will - the F-4F ICE can’t do that. Our “tears” are relatively justified, yours 99% of the time aren’t.
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False.
This is the first time that domestic things are brought up, in response to me saying this.
You’ll notice I say this to this right here
Which in the context Relates to me bringing up this
Which I said in response to… This.
Which if we put into the context, related to this
So quit rearranging the context to fit your means. I did not once bring up aircraft until someone else did; and even then in an out of context narrative.
honestly i always expected the the KF41 to be a premium vehicle since the Puma and it do share plenty of similarities