Only 2A6 (in terms of German Leopards) received that nerf iirc?
2A5 was left untouched (mostly because it didn’t have DM53 yet).
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- Currently, tanks of the Leopard 2А5/А6 series have a high level of efficiency, significantly exceeding top tier tanks from other nations. Therefore, in order to balance these tanks, their rate of fire will be reduced by 1 shot per minute (from 10 to 9 shots).
Units with changed rate of fire:
- Leopard 2A6
- Leopard 2A5
- Strv 122B PLSS
- Strv 122A
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Fair enough, remembered it wrong.
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It’s typical for Gaijin to do this. They publicly aknowledge that reload is a balancing factor, but refuse to do things like nerfing the 2A6 reload while leaving the 2A5 as is.
Same as currently. most Abramses really could use the reload buff, but imo the M1A1 at 11.0 was already pretty strong and didn’t really need it.
EDIT: Anyway. Hopefully we’ll get another BR changes post in the second half of January with some changes/fixes/improvements for a lot of top tier MBTs to compete with the 2A7V and Strv 122s.
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Saw none of this.
It is true. I think Sweden has stronger ground vehicles, although it lacks a CAS plane in any meaningful sense and the helicopter is much worse.
ITO 90M is really strong as an example, it’s also the only equivalent, there’s no backup to it after it dies.
Germany at least has Roland 3, Gepard 1A2 and Ozelot to do serious AA duties, meanwhile Sweden has ItO and ASRAD-R maybe Lvkv if you’re desperate. Stronger individual components but not really a deep and capable overall lineup.
I suppose if you’re a Leopard 2 fan then Sweden offered a lot more and still offers quite the alternatives, especially if you’re interested in “kitted-out” ones rather than the more basic service variants Germany has.
I know and I support the realism, it just conveniently has the added consequence of making these vehicles some of the strongest. It’s a factual consequence of the requests for realism.
It’s also a bit of tit for tat, Sweden gets some busted vehicles and is a strong meta nation, so Germany should get better stuff? That’s just de-facto asking to be the best, for reasons of realism.
Gaijin chooses to under-model a lot of things for game balance, they clearly pick and choose where and how the model things whilst still confined in the bounds of realism.
For example, PSO. They picked weak tech armour combinations, they obviously know it COULD contain D-tech, but clearly pick a specific implementation, weakest possible variant.
Strict historical interpretation would get pretty dull.
T-64B given 3BM42 to keep it at its current BR, otherwise it’s tougher armour at a lower BR with few drawbacks other than 3BM22 being horrendous.
T-80B and T-80U given rare thermal modifications to keep them at such a high BR for the same reasons.
Yes. I believe it’s more about what I said.
It’s heavier and slower to accelerate, right? Other than that it has M2HB, Commanderst thermals might be higher generation I don’t remember, composite screens that do actually allow the side turret to stop 3BM42 at distances above 500m, it’s not insignificant to be better protected against stock shells.
At best and upgrade and at worst a sidegrade.
I don’t accuse you of lies, I accuse you of contradiction.
Could be so, I haven’t really had top tier until this year (still in 2023 brain) and I would say Gaijin seems to be trying quite hard to learn from their mistakes even if they seem extremely incomptent at it.
Most of the Top MBT additions since the time of BVM have been copy-pastes or sidegrades, seems that’s a strong attempt to avoid major power leaping. I’d say they are also clearly intentionally trying to avoid min-maxing tanks where possible.
I think the only good solution is to put different variants of tanks. Say like 2A4 early with B-tech and DM23 and 2A4 late with C-tech and DM33, since they seem to be going for that kind of historical approach where tanks have weaker componnets and composites because technically those combinations existed.
This would add more tanks and satisfy historical accuracyy.
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Spall liners were a dumb addition to the game imo and should be removed.
I think they would be great if every nation had them. They promote good aiming and help the armor meta against the camping meta.
Problem with them is that not everyone has them.
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Yeah but with spall itself being as unreliable as it is this is really just adding salt to the wound imo. Having to shoot a tank several times because no spall is created is frustrating to say the least…
@_Renzo should be able to confirm it for you, if you trust his words since he isnt quite part of the buff leo group
those realy are only good for anti heli duty, roland 3s are shit for shooting down planes:
Stingers , same with ozelots are only good for low flying enemys as well, which isnt the norm for top tier, additionaly sweden gets access to HT VT, which works better then gepard and is available on strf9040c as well
yes thats the sad thing, i would say that mbts are the main reason why a playerbase decides to play a tree, i doubt the spaas will gather to many players, IFVs maybe
that changed now the grippen is a very good cas plane
UHT is realy overrated because its quite situational, it only works on open maps without bushes
another thing a lot of us advocated for, we dont need the 2a7V to be better then the strv122, but at least the same and gajin states its for balance purposes and we would accept it
yeah apparently they didnt, we had to prove that recently again
the add on armor is bugged, it makes shoots penetrate the frontal chassis which bounce on 2a5s, thats the biggest problem
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The entire upper plate is penetrable to basically everything above M900 level.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/ncMYvsutoHWu
I don’t accuse you of lies, I accuse you of contradiction.
How is that a contradiction? I don’t see any in what I said.
Basically; “well it’s strong, but it can be even better after fixing”. The rest about people whining was also true, especially since majority of complaints about it have come from russian “mains”.
For example, PSO. They picked weak tech armour combinations, they obviously know it COULD contain D-tech, but clearly pick a specific implementation, weakest possible variant.
It literally can’t contain anything else. The specification of the tank is “ballistic upgrade with D-technology armour, with the hull providing equivalent level of protection as the turret”, this is specific, doesn’t leave any room for interpretation (unless you are Gaijin, that is). Their “specific implementation” is looking at protection graphs for a tank that isn’t in any way related to the 2A7V (i.e the KVT/SVT), and then ignoring how the TVM (which is closer to the 2A7V in terms of protection, but still not related to it) exists.
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Yeah indeed I can. We had the discussion a couple of times and I know your opinion on it from the R&R thread.
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I trust it’s possible such discussions occured, I only say I haven’t seen it. But my point is there are enough voices howling for insane buffs like IRIS-T for Tornado or ASRAAM for Harrier.
I would understand completely if all Gaijin understands is that most/many players want insane powercreep and they want it right now with 0 concern for balance.
I only meant to say those are better options than ASRAD-R.
Yes, like I suppose how Tornado with 4 LGB can work quite well.
It’s not as unique as it once was, but it’s still incredibly strong to even be able to spit out 8 possible kills within a short period of time before you can dive out to re-arm and do it all again. It’s the chance at least to get a bunch of kills with low risk compared to helicopters that simply have to guide the missile in.
If it’s given the same armour it would still have it’s exceptional shell, it really can’t be the same without being better, as it stands it’s a bit less armour for a bit more penetration, so a compromise.
Most unfortunate, link me to any bug reports and I will gladly support them.
I suppose there’s some logic to what they say, that a shell can’t ricochet as easily if it’s already travelling through some kind of armour.
Because that’s de-facto asking for powercreep.
I can’t say I’m too surprised. Whatever makes someone choose to play top tier Germany probably makes them sympathetic to other German aligned contemporary nations, a kind of solidarity.
You see often people who think “Balance” in top tier means recreations of “Battle of 73 Easting” ad infinitum. That’s the way they see this technology and that’s how they think things should be, to more or less extreme degrees.
I checked some of your bug reports, I’m not personally convinced that PSO has to be D-tech, seems there’s wriggle room about which batch could be converted to PSO and that’s the kind of historical wriggle room Gaijin takes advantage of for balance sake, but I’ve supported some of your bug reports which I could verify and believe to be true like the absent turret ring armour.
Its great on anything desert like or the few grassland maps without too much trees. Means on like 85% of all maps its super hard to get a hit (or even a lock).
I still don’t understand why Sweden still has the best Leopard 2, despite 2A7V is the second newest Ger version and Sweden still goes with almost 30 year old models.
All litening pods like on the Tornado’s and F-16s seem to be nerfed to gen1 except for the Gripen, which still seemed to have gen2 thermals when watching a discord stream of my friend.
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we have proven that it is the exact same add on as the Strv 122 that riccochets… so yeah
there is no PSO batch, the PSO has a unique prototype hull to carry the bigger engine, it is the same hull as the 2A6EX, there simply never was a weaker internal composite used, because there only ever existed like 2 total
to be fair, thats what rank 8 should have been, new vehicles that increase the power once again, but gajin just lazily moved up nearly every tank which is the problem, gajin needs to do a better job informing themself over the new additions and their capabilities and use spanish avengers newset suggestion about armor values, in this day and age you will simply not find the exact values anymore
How is that a contradiction?
I checked some of your bug reports, I’m not personally convinced that PSO has to be D-tech
This is about the 2A7V…
eh thats my fault, i brought up earlier how the PSO is supposed to get buffs as well, and oh yeah @Tristacomand PSO needs hull spall liners and internal side composite as well, might make it more clear how it is an upgraded hull to you and not an old 2a4 hull or sth like that
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BVM has this as well. And you can actually reliably pen the t80s breach, unlike the leopard
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I’m sorry but if you have trouble reliably penning a Leopard 2A5 and onwards breach than that sounds like an aiming issue.
BVM breach can be far more troll than the 2A5 and onwards breach from my experience.
It’s always a skill issue when something isn’t russian, ffs. Shooting the bvm in the breach (or even left/right of it) will kill both crew in the turret somehow most of the time. Leopards have some of the biggest volumetric shittery in the game, usually only found in lower tier tanks such as the t44 and jumbo. Shooting it in the breach might not even pen for God knows what reason. It also has multiple pixel spots with 2000mm armor on its side profile.
People really like to cry about russian tanks despite not even being the best in the game, which makes it weird. Are they butthurt because of the war? Or something else
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