At very very least 2A7V should have same armor profile as strv122 not weaker than it and don’t forget it heavier than any Leopard 2 except PSO common logic where you think those extra weight came from?
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@Smin1080p People are upset because they see how Gaijin is approaching stuff that people dug and report, spending time and making great effort to make things in the game better/more realistic as War Thunder brands itself as “realistic”. With blog like “Hull armour of M1 Abrams” you just cut a line and say “nah nah nah don’t bother us more, we don’t do that” while giving us poor explanation like M1 suspension or that German engineers could not provide better armour to A7 per 25years but Swedes could. As stated it is modeled wrongly and not even match actual protection from Swedish Trials, and in game code A7V applique amour has worse modifiers than 122s when the exact same company is producing them per 20 years. What’s the point of 122B+ being actually better protected than A7V when Swedes has every Leopard on top tier with good hull armour but Germany have only one.
Every top tier tank from now would be “assumed” and full of speculation and you should change approach how things would be modelled in the game.
9 Likes
And also things like “we want exact number of Abrams hull armour, dimensions and material used” from @TrickZZter and then " we assume it’s like that" and " our experts think Igla is 10g so Stinger too" doesn’t really help and just heat up things more.
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Has there been a discussion at Gaijin around making an open and clear statement that the armour as well as other attributes surrounding these modern MBTs are attributed based on whatever Gaijin deems to be balanced? Rather than historically accurate?
Providing bug reports with primary source evidence leads to: ‘‘Duplicate’’ (even though the original was forwarded and subsequently done nothing with), ‘‘Not a bug’’ and dismissed or ‘‘Acknowledged’’ and subsequently never to be heard of again.
If Gaijin dropped the pretence of creating fully accurate armour models based on source material, and instead admitted it’s all balance-based, there would likely be much less annoyance in the community in regards to errors.
12 Likes
Problem here is that it isn’t.
I genuinely believe that their statements are honest.
I was in the same boat as you before and you probably know since you have been around the forums for a long time, but I have very recently been shown stuff that is very much evidence to the contrary.
I can and will not make it public because the relevant individuals are not at fault.
Trust me, it’s not a balance tool that the devs simply don’t want to name as one.
I heavily disagree with most of their recent statementss and am fully convinced that they are wrong, but it’s their genuine standpoint.
It might be because of personal bias but certainly not for balance purposes in the game.
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This:
Is very difficult to get around though.
They claim that the armour is modelled off of the Swedish documents, yet the armour doesn’t even correctly match the values presented. Furthermore, when this gets bug reported and acknowledged numerous times, it simply gets discarded and ignored.
They’ve also been shown that various vehicles received armour improvements (Strv 122B+), but Gaijin chooses not to model those improvements simply because no concrete data points are given.
That’s being less historically accurate than just guesstimating an armour increase.
9 Likes
I plotted the protection of the 2A7V and the protection of the 2A5 by simulating around 300.000 shots each.
Threat is Dm53 (652mm pen)
2A7V According to the devs:
2A7V in reality:
2A5 in reality:
Notable how much weaker the 2A7V turret is compared to the 2A5, including many more armor holes
There might also be some internal armor plate missing on the 2A7Vs left side.
All hits on the left over the track around the APU can fragment into the engine and radiator
Some notes:
- The UFP on the 2A5 doesnt pen, but it ricochets into the turret damaging the gun or penetrating (hence green).
- Some areas on the 2A7V didnt return a simulation value of the penetration, I had to edit that in manually.
I’ll post the 20° from the side to match the swedish trials tomorrow.
12 Likes
I don’t know what to say… but i feel like 2A7V are unfinish model and because it seem doing good in it current state that why gaijin don’t bother fixing it.
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I’m curious to know how you do this, it’s quite nice and seems much more granular and accurate than the built-in protection analysis tool.
I vaguely remember many years ago when people made a custom mission or something to shoot thousands of rounds on a vehicle to find armour holes, but I doubt I will find it again.
I ask because I have the STANAG 4569 documents which detail testing procedures and protection levels, MANY vehicles that have such protection schemes in-game do not meet it in the slightest., but exact % covered would be nice to obtain
2 Likes
I feel it as well, the engine and the radiator of the 2A7V are like more exposed (being in the same chassi as other Leo 2 tanks) and the radiator tend to damage with a 50cal side hit or any artillery explosion at 10 meter for example damages it, when on other Leo 2 does nothing. I dont know why but i feel the 2A7V the weaker of the Leo 2 Family in game, when in reality is the best armored in the family. Is like more fragile due to the rushed development and bad modeling issue
1 Like
No I might be wrong but isn’t the 2A7 missing the add on roof armour?
2A7V does not have extra roof armour.
that’s 2A7HU but yes it doesnt have extra roof armor
no dragoon posted a german 2a7V, if its different maybe the danish version.
But 2A7Hu has a completly different camo scheme with even yellow integrated, personaly i love their camos scheme
i just noticed the cammo i confused it with the HU cuz it had the weird front skirts things
1 Like
Hmmm don’t which Leo 2 it was then as I’ve seen some with add on roof armour
happens to the best of us :D
Here is a better angle of it.
And it will go to Italy TT in the feature (kinda like the look of it)
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I hope so! Italy and isreal need a LOT of help right now. If thier armour wont improve they need to get better tanks.
Well now US really need help a lot it not just bad they now become deadweight to any team they par with even German+Sweden if there are US half of the team it still lose (playing sweden got three lose streak because par with the US)