Leopard 2 and its prototypes - Inaccuracies and Discussion

The Leopard 2 tanks and Leopard 2 prototypes we currently have in the game largely correspond to their real-life counterparts. However, they are still lacking in some parts. Be it a small modelling error or incorrect sights, I’ve decided to try documenting all of these inaccuricies. For now, I’m only going to talk about the german variants but feel free to add things about the tanks in the swedish tree. I hope we’ll see a more accurate representation of these amazing vehicles in the game!

Leopard 2K:

  • Name clarification
    The Leopard 2 developement started with two concept studies, the Leopard 2K (Kanone) and the Leopard 2FK (Flugkörper). Development of the Leopard 2FK was stopped early on, while the Leopard 2K entered the prototype phase. The hulls and turrets were each given their own desighnations. Hulls were named PT1 - PT20 (PT12 was never built) and turrets T1 - T21. The Leopard 2K we have ingame has T11, as this was the only turret equipped with the Rh202 20mm machine cannon. The turrets and hulls were tested in all sorts of combinations and it is not known which hull T11 was ultimately mounted on. Considering this, I think the tank should be renamed to Leopard 2K (T11).

  • Missing stabilizer for the 20mm Fla machine cannon (fixed in “Sons of Attila”)
    One of T11’s unique features was the 20mm machine cannon for anti-aircraft defence and use against ground targets. This gun was controlled from inside the turret and independently stabilised. It is missing the stabilizer ingame.

  • Missing retractable night vision optics
    T11 and T16 were equipped with the NZG200 made by Eltro-Zeiss. This night vision optic was positioned at the back of the turret, together with an infrared/white-light searchlight. Both of these were retractable and are missing on the Leopard 2k ingame. The NZG200 was installed in a rotatable head and featured a thermal imager.


    T11 with its optics fully extended

Turmheck - Leopard 2K
The Leopard 2K in War Thunder

  • Missing APU
    PT1 to PT18 were equipped with an auxiliary power unit built by either MWM or Krupp. APUs are not modelled on any tank at the moment but I hope this tank receives one if they ever get added.

PT16/T14 mod.:

  • Missing assisted loading mechanism
    The modified T14 featured a fully automatic loading system fed by a protected ammunition stowage in the back of the turret. Additionally, it had an assisted loading mechanism, where the loader had to move the shell into a conveyor. The second system is missing ingame.

    T14 mod.'s loading systems illustrated by the WTS Koblenz

  • Missing night vision optics
    There exists at least one image of the T14 mod. being equipped with the same NZG200 as T11 and T16. It was positioned at the back of the turret.


    NZG200 or PNZG mounted on T14 mod.

grafik

The spot where the optic would have been, is welded shut.

  • Missing composite armour
    The prototype turret T14 was modified in 1973 and fitted with the electro-optical rangefinder EMES 13 as well as composite armour for the first time. This change in protection concept was caused by insights from the Yom-Kippur war and US requirements. The Leopard 1 no longer having to be retrofitted with the new technologies also allowed for a new turret design. The newly available composite armour significantly increased the protection and lead to the boxy turret shape, which the rangefinder was easily integrated into. The areas that were fitted with composite armour can be easily identified by the welds on the turret and breech. It currently has only spaced armour.


    Description by the WTS


    Welds where composite armour was inserted

  • Missing APU
    See Leopard 2K

Leopard 2AV:

  • Name clarification (fixed)
    The Leopard 2AV we have ingame has a 105mm rifled gun and the EMES 15 with a laser rangefinder. This combination was only present on the PT19/T19, which was sent to the USA to be trialled against the XM-1 prototypes made by General Motors and Chrysler. As three prototypes were called Leopard 2AV (Austere Version), this tank should be renamed to Leopard 2AV (PT19/T19).


    PT19/T19 before being transported to the US

  • Missing optional Rh120 L/44
    PT19/T19 was intended to mount the 120mm Rh120 L/44 smoothbore gun. For the US-trials it had instead been fitted with the L7 105mm rifled gun to be compared to the XM-1, which used the same gun. However, it was switched to the 120mm while still in the US to show it was possible.


    PT19/T19 mounting the Rh120

Leopard 2A4 and PzBtl 123:

  • Incorrect smoke dischargers
    The Leopard 2A4 in War Thunder seems to be a vehicle from the 5th production lot, as it is missing the heavy side skirts and the ammunition loading hatch on the left side of the turret is welded shut. Vehicles of the 5th batch and onwards had reinforced smoke dischargers on the right side of the turret. On previous batches, the two railings were connected with a simple bracket. In War Thunder, the two railings are not connected at all.


    Leopard 2A4FIN

    MWA 5. Baulos 2A4
    Illustration by Frank Lobitz

  • Incorrect gunner’s thermal sight resolution
    The WBG-X has been the Leopard 2s primary night vision device from 1982 in the Leopard 2A1 until it was replaced by the ATTICA-GL on the Leopard 2A7V in 2019. It uses a license produced version of the Commonmodule sensor made by Texas Instruments, which was also adopted on the M1 Abrams and Challenger 1. This sensor is commonly used to generate a 640x480 pixels image. Ingame the WBG-X (Wärmebildgerät), like all first generation thermal sights, has a resolution of 500x300 pixels.

  • Incorrect anti-slip coatings

Illustration by Frank Lobitz

Antirutsch-Beläge Leopard 2A4

How it looks on the Leopard 2A4 in War Thunder

  • Missing external central warning light
    On vehicles from the 5th production lot and onwards, the central warning light was moved to the outside of the hull, in front of the driver’s hatch. This way it was easier to see for the driver while the hatches were closed. It is missing ingame.

    Leopard 2A4 of the Deutsches Panzermuseum Munster

    Zentralewarnleuchte - nah

Leopard 2A5:

  • Ahistorical gunner’s thermal sight resolution
    See Leopard 2A4

  • Underperfoming heavy side skirts
    During the KWS 2, 6th to 8th batch 2A4 hulls were used for the Leopard 2A5 upgrade. The 6th and 7th batch vehicles had heavy side skirts in C-Technology, while the vehicles of the 8th batch had heavy and light side skirts in D-Technology. In War Thunder the heavy side skirts in B-Technology of 5th batch Leopard 2A4 offer 60mm of protection against KE. The heavy side skirts in either C- or D-Technology of the Leopard 2A5 offer the same amount of protection, although they should use improved composites.

    B-Technologie Seitenschützen 2A4

    Heavy side skirts in B-Technology

    C- oder D-Technologie schwere Seitenschürzen 2A4
    Heavy side skirts in C- or D-Technology

  • Incorrect material for the light side skirts
    The Leopard 2A5 ingame is equipped with second generation light side skirts. These were introduced on the 8th production lot of the 2A4 and came in D-Technology. This means they should be classified as composite screens instead of structural steel.

  • Incorrect light side skirts generation
    Early Leopard 2A5s still used light side skirts of the second generation with recessed screws, although they were meant to receive third generation light side skirts with surface-mounted screws. In my opinion, the 2A5 should receive third generation light side skirts in War Thunder to show the vehicle as it was meant to look.
    MWA und leichte Kettenblenden (1)
    Illustration by Frank Lobitz

Third generation light side skirts on a 2A6MA2

  • Incorrect smoke discharger layout
    The smoke discharger clusters present a similar situation as the light side skirts. Early vehicles still used the old layout with 4 smoke dischargers in the upper row and 4 in the lower row. The production Leopard 2A5s used the new layout with 6 smoke dischargers in the upper row and 2 in the lower row.

    MWA und leichte Kettenblenden (2)
    Illustration by Frank Lobitz

  • Incorrect cover on the glacis plate
    From the 1st to 5th production lot of the Leopard 2A4 the access hatch for the hull composites was initially simply bolted on and then welded shut during the 5th production lot. From the 6th batch and onwards the cover was welded directly.


    Illustration by Frank Lobitz

    Wannenpanzerung Abdeckung - Leopard 2A6
    How it looks on the 2A5 in War Thunder

  • Missing anti-slip coatings on the glacis
    The Leopard 2A5 is missing anti-slip coatings, while it should have the late variants.

    Antirutsch-Beläge Leopard 2A5
    How it looks on the 2A5 in War Thunder

    Leopard 2A6:

  • Ahistorical gunner’s thermal sight resolution
    See Leopard 2A5

  • Underperfoming heavy side skirts
    See Leopard 2A5

  • Incorrect material for the light side skirts
    See Leopard 2A5

  • Incorrect light side skirts generation
    See Leopard 2A5

  • Incorrect smoke discharger layout
    See Leopard 2A5

  • Incorrect cover on the glacis plate
    See Leopard 2A5

  • Missing anti-slip coatings on the glacis
    See Leopard 2A5

Leopard 2 PSO:

  • Inaccurate hull ammorack
    The Leopard 2 PSO was equipped with the mine protection kit first seen on the Leopard 2A6M. This kit, among other changes, removed the lowest row of ammunition in the hull ammorack. Currently, the PSO still has the standard 5 rows.

    grafik

    The PSO ingame

  • Incorret FLW 200 thermal generation
    The FLW 200, which was mounted on top of the turret, was equipped with the LAZ 400 fire-control unit made by Rheinmetall. This sytem used the SAPHIR 2.6 third generation thermal sensor to ensure full capability at night. Ingame, the FLW 200 has a first generation thermal sight.
    grafik

    The SAPHIR thermal sensor

  • Missing engine silencers

  • Incorrect light side skirts material
    See Leopard 2A5

My sources are Gesamtwerk Leopard 2 by Frank Lobitz and Waffensysteme Leopard 1 und Leopard 2 by Walter J. Spielberger.

21 Likes

thermal for 2k and correct armor for the leo 2a5 and 2a6 would certainly be great additions

9 Likes

Which part of the armour are you referring to?

The mentioned side skirts

Oh absolutely. Especially since it’s an extremely easy fix

That alone would be amazing, tho I wonder if that’d bump it up to 10.0 then

1 Like

This is a great topic, but if it’s not reported, it won’t get fixed.

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder

I recommend you make a report here.

4 Likes

everytime a report on incorrect equipment is filed there, it is closed as “not a bug” for “balance reasons”. do you promise to make sure it reaches the developers?

5 Likes

Rejected reports are rejected for a reason, they didn’t get the right source, or they want to change the something with implemented as a gamified allowance. In either of these cases, the report will be rejected.

This thread also mentions the resolution of thermal sight as an issue, but that’s not incorrect: thermal sight in games is only distinguished by generations 1, 2, and 3, so the current implementation is correct.

it would be nice to know that reason during the rejection - but we’re talking about this concrete topic - do you agree the sources provided, minus the thermal resolution, warrant for the given changes and vow to make sure they reach the vehicle development team? or are they gonna get closed as “not a bug” as many, many others?
Since you ask for the community.gaijin platform to be used, i think it’s fair to ask you for commitment so the topic doesn’t just get buried and ignored.

Hi there,
speaking of reports, I made one about the track textures not being alligned with the damage model over a year ago.
Are there any chances of fixing that?
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/QFsekshxir3S

1 Like

It’s barely a 9.7 now.

PSO has the exposed neck…

3 Likes

bug report, isnt supposed to have it right?

The PSO also didn’t receive its historical ability to replace the dozer with more add-on hull armour. I don’t think this would be broken at all, as it would make it only slightly better than the Strv 122s. There’s really no reason to not give Germany a Leo 2 with actual hull armour after 3 years of waiting.

7 Likes

The current PSO shown has the dozer and extra armor, as well as the upgraded 1650hp engine, I have no complaints about that one atm. Its a later variant PSO afaik.

The PSO could mount the same hull armour as the Strv 122, in place of the dozer. It uses the 2A6EX Demo 2 hull, which can only be seen with the hull armour. On the PSO demonstrator, the dozer attaches to the mounting points of the big piece of add-on hull armour, therefore it could only take one or the other. The extra armour on the upper ufp remained in both configurations.

1 Like

Wait, yeah, disregard, I miss-saw the tank I guess, when I first looked at it it looked like this:

Instead of like this (which is how it actually is ingame):

1 Like

Made a report for the exposed turret ring:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/4AQJt4YA6BoH

but they both were the standard leoaprd 2 pso and the above not the leoaprd 2 pso vt version was it?