Leopard 2 and its prototypes - Inaccuracies and Discussion

[Toxindragon]

The Leopard 2 tanks and Leopard 2 prototypes we currently have in the game largely correspond to their real-life counterparts. However, they are still lacking in some parts. Be it a small modelling error or incorrect sights, I’ve decided to try documenting all of these inaccuricies. For now, I’m only going to talk about the german variants but feel free to add things about the tanks in the swedish tree. I hope we’ll see a more accurate representation of these amazing vehicles in the game!

Leopard 2K:

• Name clarification
  The Leopard 2 developement started with two concept studies, the Leopard 2K (Kanone) and the Leopard 2FK (Flugkörper). Development of the Leopard 2FK was stopped early on, while the Leopard 2K entered the prototype phase. The hulls and turrets were each given their own desighnations. Hulls were named PT1 - PT20 (PT12 was never built) and turrets T1 - T21. The Leopard 2K we have ingame has T11, as this was the only turret equipped with the Rh202 20mm machine cannon. The turrets and hulls were tested in all sorts of combinations and it is not known which hull T11 was ultimately mounted on. Considering this, I think the tank should be renamed to Leopard 2K (T11).
  

  

• Missing stabilizer for the 20mm Fla machine cannon
  One of T11’s unique features was the 20mm machine cannon for anti-aircraft defence and use against ground targets. This gun was controlled from inside the turret and independently stabilised. It is missing the stabilizer ingame.
  

  
  
  Edit: The Leopard 2K has received a stabiliser for the 20mm machine cannon on the “Sons of Atilla” dev server.

• Missing retractable night vision optics
  T11 and T16 were equipped with the NZG200 made by Eltro-Zeiss. This night vision optic was positioned at the back of the turret, together with an infrared/white-light searchlight. Both of these were retractable and are missing on the Leopard 2k ingame. The NZG200 was installed in a rotatable head and featured a thermal imager.
  

  
  
  
  T11 with its optics fully extended
  
  
  

The Leopard 2K in War Thunder

• Missing APU
  PT1 to PT18 were equipped with an auxiliary power unit built by either MWM or Krupp. APUs are not modelled on any tank at the moment but I hope this tank receives one if they ever get added.

PT16/T14 mod.:

• Missing assisted loading mechanism
  The modified T14 featured a fully automatic loading system fed by a protected ammunition stowage in the back of the turret. Additionally, it had an assisted loading mechanism, where the loader had to move the shell into a conveyor. The second system is missing ingame.
  

  
  T14 mod.'s loading systems illustrated by the WTS Koblenz

• Missing APU
  See Leopard 2K

Leopard 2AV:

• Name clarification
  The Leopard 2AV we have ingame has a 105mm rifled gun and the EMES 15 with a laser rangefinder. This combination was only present on the PT19/T19, which was sent to the USA to be trialled against the XM-1 prototypes made by General Motors and Chrysler. As three prototypes were called Leopard 2AV (Austere Version), this tank should be renamed to Leopard 2AV (PT19/T19).
  
  
  
  
  PT19/T19 before being transported to the US

Edit: The Leopard 2AV has been renamed on the statcard.

Leopard 2A4 and PzBtl 123:

• Incorrect smoke dischargers
  The Leopard 2A4 in War Thunder seems to be a vehicle from the 5th production lot, as it is missing the heavy side skirts and the ammunition loading hatch on the left side of the turret is welded shut. Vehicles of the 5th batch and onwards had reinforced smoke dischargers on the right side of the turret. On previous batches, the two railings were connected with a simple bracket. In War Thunder, the two railings are not connected at all.
  

  
  
  
  Leopard 2A4FIN
  
  
  
  Illustration by Frank Lobitz

• Incorrect gunner’s thermal sight resolution
  The WBG-X has been the Leopard 2s primary night vision device from 1982 in the Leopard 2A1 until it was replaced by the ATTICA-GL on the Leopard 2A7V in 2019. It uses a license produced version of the Commonmodule sensor made by Texas Instruments, which was also adopted on the M1 Abrams and Challenger 1. This sensor is commonly used to generate a 640x480 pixels image. Ingame the WBG-X (Wärmebildgerät), like all first generation thermal sights, has a resolution of 500x300 pixels.

• Incorrect anti-slip coatings
  

  

Illustration by Frank Lobitz

How it looks on the Leopard 2A4 in War Thunder

• Missing external central warning light
  On vehicles from the 5th production lot and onwards, the central warning light was moved to the outside of the hull, in front of the driver’s hatch. This way it was easier to see for the driver while the hatches were closed. It is missing ingame.
  
  
  
  
  Leopard 2A4 of the Deutsches Panzermuseum Munster
  
  
  

Leopard 2A5:

• Ahistorical gunner’s thermal sight resolution
  See Leopard 2A4

• Underperfoming heavy side skirts
  During the KWS 2, 6th to 8th batch 2A4 hulls were used for the Leopard 2A5 upgrade. The 6th and 7th batch vehicles had heavy side skirts in C-Technology, while the vehicles of the 8th batch had heavy and light side skirts in D-Technology. In War Thunder the heavy side skirts in B-Technology of 5th batch Leopard 2A4 offer 60mm of protection against KE. The heavy side skirts in either C- or D-Technology of the Leopard 2A5 offer the same amount of protection, although they should use improved composites.
  

  
  
  
  Heavy side skirts in B-Technology
  
  
  
  Heavy side skirts in C- or D-Technology

• Incorrect material for the light side skirts
  The Leopard 2A5 ingame is equipped with second generation light side skirts. These were introduced on the 8th production lot of the 2A4 and came in D-Technology. This means they should be classified as composite screens instead of structural steel.
  

  

• Incorrect light side skirts generation
  Early Leopard 2A5s still used light side skirts of the second generation with recessed screws, although they were meant to receive third generation light side skirts with surface-mounted screws. In my opinion, the 2A5 should receive third generation light side skirts in War Thunder to show the vehicle as it was meant to look.
  
  Illustration by Frank Lobitz

Third generation light side skirts on a 2A6MA2

• Incorrect smoke discharger layout
  The smoke discharger clusters present a similar situation as the light side skirts. Early vehicles still used the old layout with 4 smoke dischargers in the upper row and 4 in the lower row. The production Leopard 2A5s used the new layout with 6 smoke dischargers in the upper row and 2 in the lower row.
  

  
  Illustration by Frank Lobitz

• Incorrect cover on the glacis plate
  From the 1st to 5th production lot of the Leopard 2A4 the access hatch for the hull composites was initially simply bolted on and then welded shut during the 5th production lot. From the 6th batch and onwards the cover was welded directly.
  

  
  
  
  Illustration by Frank Lobitz
  
  
  
  How it looks on the 2A5 in War Thunder

• Missing anti-slip coatings on the glacis
  The Leopard 2A5 is missing anti-slip coatings, while it should have the late variants.
  

  
  How it looks on the 2A5 in War Thunder
  
  Leopard 2A6:

• Ahistorical gunner’s thermal sight resolution
  See Leopard 2A5

• Underperfoming heavy side skirts
  See Leopard 2A5

• Incorrect material for the light side skirts
  See Leopard 2A5

• Incorrect light side skirts generation
  See Leopard 2A5

• Incorrect smoke discharger layout
  See Leopard 2A5

• Incorrect cover on the glacis plate
  See Leopard 2A5

• Missing anti-slip coatings on the glacis
  See Leopard 2A5

My sources are Gesamtwerk Leopard 2 by Frank Lobitz and Waffensysteme Leopard 1 und Leopard 2 by Walter J. Spielberger.

[x_Shini]

thermal for 2k and correct armor for the leo 2a5 and 2a6 would certainly be great additions

[Toxindragon]

Which part of the armour are you referring to?

[x_Shini]

The mentioned side skirts

[Toxindragon]

Oh absolutely. Especially since it’s an extremely easy fix

[TyrantrumGamingB]

@x_Shini

thermal for 2k

That alone would be amazing, tho I wonder if that’d bump it up to 10.0 then

[_David_Bowie]

This is a great topic, but if it’s not reported, it won’t get fixed.

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder

I recommend you make a report here.

[CptRy4nFinn]

everytime a report on incorrect equipment is filed there, it is closed as “not a bug” for “balance reasons”. do you promise to make sure it reaches the developers?

[_David_Bowie]

Rejected reports are rejected for a reason, they didn’t get the right source, or they want to change the something with implemented as a gamified allowance. In either of these cases, the report will be rejected.

This thread also mentions the resolution of thermal sight as an issue, but that’s not incorrect: thermal sight in games is only distinguished by generations 1, 2, and 3, so the current implementation is correct.

[CptRy4nFinn]

@_David_Bowie_

are rejected for a reason,

it would be nice to know that reason during the rejection - but we’re talking about this concrete topic - do you agree the sources provided, minus the thermal resolution, warrant for the given changes and vow to make sure they reach the vehicle development team? or are they gonna get closed as “not a bug” as many, many others?
Since you ask for the community.gaijin platform to be used, i think it’s fair to ask you for commitment so the topic doesn’t just get buried and ignored.

[JAN_KWTX]

Hi there,
speaking of reports, I made one about the track textures not being alligned with the damage model over a year ago.
Are there any chances of fixing that?
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/QFsekshxir3S

[CodyBlues]

It’s barely a 9.7 now.

[Shadow_Monarch]

PSO has the exposed neck…

[x_Shini]

bug report, isnt supposed to have it right?

[Toxindragon]

The PSO also didn’t receive its historical ability to replace the dozer with more add-on hull armour. I don’t think this would be broken at all, as it would make it only slightly better than the Strv 122s. There’s really no reason to not give Germany a Leo 2 with actual hull armour after 3 years of waiting.

[MythicPi]

The current PSO shown has the dozer and extra armor, as well as the upgraded 1650hp engine, I have no complaints about that one atm. Its a later variant PSO afaik.

[Toxindragon]

The PSO could mount the same hull armour as the Strv 122, in place of the dozer. It uses the 2A6EX Demo 2 hull, which can only be seen with the hull armour. On the PSO demonstrator, the dozer attaches to the mounting points of the big piece of add-on hull armour, therefore it could only take one or the other. The extra armour on the upper ufp remained in both configurations.

[MythicPi]

Wait, yeah, disregard, I miss-saw the tank I guess, when I first looked at it it looked like this:

Instead of like this (which is how it actually is ingame):

[Shadow_Monarch]

Made a report for the exposed turret ring:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/4AQJt4YA6BoH

[x_Shini]

but they both were the standard leoaprd 2 pso and the above not the leoaprd 2 pso vt version was it?