Leo 2a7v and 122b+

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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Needless to say, we all are aware of the current meta in the game and its flatout leopards especially the latest leopards and they are just unbearable. I am an American main myself and this current meta of leos is just flat out wrong on so many levels. In the past people cried about the t80bvm but it had one big weakness…its breach.

The breach of the t80 is so easy to get including the new t90 which inheritantly balence those vehicles somewhat because they arent unstoppable compared to the leos. Currently you can shoot the leo basically direct up its nose and it does absolutely nothing or better yet my favorite with this current leo madbess is when you shoot a direct shot in the lower plate, it passes clean through killing the driver and commander and within 3 seconds as long as round was loaded they are able to fire instantly and thus my Abrams is dead once again.

The survivability of these vehicles currently is far to high and needs to be nerfed immediately or the spall liners removed from war thunder.

Lets look at this
TURRET - NOT PENNABLE FROM ANY ANGLE BESIDES THE FAR BACK OF IT FROM THE SIDE

BREACH- BARELY EXISTANT AND NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO GET HALF THE TIME

UPPER LOWER PLATE- NOW ABLE TO STOP ANY ROUND

AMMUNITION- THE BEST IN THE GAME

ENGINE/MOBILITY - FAST AND MANUVERABLE AND GREAT REVERSE GEAR

SIGHTS- BEST COMMANDER SIGHT IN GAME GUNNER IS MEDIOCRE BUT DOABLE

What is the downside to this tank? Please explain to me how is this tank balenced, what does germany not having a proper ground pounder for CAS have anything to do with leos being so OP when basically if you fight germany and russia and sweeden together right now its a guranteed loss and its always been like that, but now even more so and the game is currently grouping those 3 nations together even more now. As if germany has anything to do with russia now days anyways thats a funny pairing to begin with(where is the balence) russia is just currently mediocre at best and the win rate is going down somewhat

People love to say the main reason for America being so bad is because of the player base and mind you that is very true in alot of ways but combine that with the current way the abrams is modeled with a paper turret ring and breach, you get exactly what you are witnessing right now in this game.

The leos need to be nerfed and the survivability needs to be lowered somehow thiers no way this tank should be in this game like this, just to appease some butt hurt German mains who are always crying “GERMANY SUFFERS” SHOW ME WHERE?! YOU EVEN HAVE THE BEST DAMN SPAA IN THE GAME NOW WITH A MISSLE THAT HAS 50G OVERLOAD AND CAN LITERALLY SMACK THE F16 OUT THE SKY SO EASILY NOW, especially considering you cant drop GBUs without being under mach so the only way to be effective cas is to make sure your running the agm65d otherwise your dead in the water weather its the ITO or the flakrakrad when these things are around useinf GBUs are pointless when the only possitive you have is speed and to balence the f16 you cant drop the bombs past mach so you have to get 3 kills and 1 cap just to get 900 plus spawn points to get into the plane to be effective against Germany.

All in all these tanks need to be changed and i dont want to hear arguments why it shoudnt be changed and kept right where it is for one simple reason. Give me 1 reason 1 real reason thier is a negative to playing a leopard 2a6 or 2a7 or pso over playing any abrams at rank 7 or 8, because you will not find one. PERIOD

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I will admit that i don’t own either, but having fought both, the 2a7V and 122b+ are insanely good. From experience fighting it, the 2a7v is better, but they are both ridiculously powerful

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My toy isn’t as good as yours so it must be nerfed instead of fighting to fix your tank which is broken in opposite way.

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BVM, challanger 3, black knight, Type 10s all have gen 3 gunnder commander which are equal to the 2A7V and VT-4A1, WZ1001, ZTZ99A, ZTZ99 II, ZTZ 99III, Sepv1, Sepv2, Challanger 2E, merkava 4s, arietes and leclercs each have gen 2 commander / gunner optics. So they are not the best in the game.

Pen ≠ Good

Type 10, M829A2 are almost identical in pen with way better post pen damage. 3BM60 and most other shells that are around 550-600mm sit in the same boat.

Pantsir? It0? Type 81c? Also any competent F16 can dodge the VT1, way easier to dodge than the pantsir or type 81c.

better reload, better opics for more tanks (sepv1 and sepv2 have better optics than 2a5, 2a5pso and 2a6) more consistent spall (DM53 has ass spall) better acceleration on the sepv2 vs 2a7v.

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/845998529355972638/1195647438304845954/pen_map.png?ex=65b4c073&is=65a24b73&hm=0d1ca96137c8d9ea4abfa62e2da5f8ce16d67f42b38a6d07ad47a17d1cae4990&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=983&height=765

Here, might help you.

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the 122 is better, the 2A7V has a far worse armor profile as it is insanely gimped in comparison to the 122 by being based off a leopard 2a5 improved for the Swedish trials that is 30 years older and doesn’t even use the same armor layout

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They are similar, but for me (not objective, my opinion) the 2a7v is a stronger opponent due to its firepower

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the penetration difference is almost completely irrelevant ingame

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lets not forget VT1 has more drag coefficent wich is bad as heck compared to other missiles

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Well its worthless to gight for the abrams when gajin refuses to do anything.

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ok 2a7v and strv122 are strong i wont deny that, the 2a7v is quite bugged and gimped by gajin but still playable and good but

That realy isnt true, the Flarakrad is a good bit worse, the ITO 90M of both sweden and france come with 8 ready to fire missles while the flarakrad has 2 and needs to reload both at the same time.
Ito 90M has gen 3 thermals, flarakrad gen 1.
Additionaly Flarakrad starts with roland 3.
The Pantsir and Tor M1 both are better then Flarakrad as well with better thermals and or radars and have more ready to shoot missles and can even shoot at multiple at once. Not mentioning pantsir not activating a lot rwrs and having a cannon.

The Flarakrad is the “worst” of the best spaas. Ito 90M, Tor M1 and Pantsir are better.
Tam 81C is missing its radar missles
Israel is ducked doesnt ahve top tier spaa, same with italy not having a missle spaa
uk and us “spaa” are good but they dont have spaa spawn points which is problematic

Quite simple there is nothing to change, gajin doesnt balance vehicles of armor values, they use the armor of the sources that are found. MBTs only get balanced with reload rate and BR rate at top tier, both wouldnt realy help balancing them much.

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quite simple solution which is put Germany and Sweden on two side, AND NEVER PUT THEM TOGETHER. because if Germany and Sweden are on one side this match already end before it even start.

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All SPAA are hard to counter without having F-16 flight performance. I ve found Su-39 very hard to use Vs VT-1 but it’s all depends on map you playing. One thing that makes Su-39 f.e fun and challenging to use it’s fact that it doesn’t face Pantsir.
But on topic, yes 2A7V and B+ are hard to play againts, in first shot you have to kill its gun and then pray for him to be alone and without friends. Basically any Leopard with better hull armour or spallliners are hard to one shot, and often have ability to shot you back instantly.

Those tanks entered a tier where BVM sits since it’s addition, now alongside T-90M and other Leo’s. I personally found all Leopard 2 tanks overperforming when used right. It felt like I am invincible when you have a little ridge to peek at max gun depression, even PSO felt crazy and fun to use. Now I have 81% winratio, 36 battles and around 110 kills with 2A7V and started to grind USSR once more. With T-80U it’s very challenging to fight those.

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Lmao.

Now thats just being angry.

Aaaaand this is where the famed skill issue can be pinpointed with laser like accuracy. Ito is much more capable VT-1 platform (mostly because you arent fucked when the second missile doesnt hit), Pantsir has better scan angles, longer rage missiles and most importantly has gun for targets that get too close, Tor also pulls some nice Gs while having more ready to fire missiles.

The horror of running probably the best fire and forget air to ground missile from potent platform like F-16C.

The solution is to get better at the game.

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All im seeing is copium

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I would aggree if the Leo2A7V wasnt already nerved af.
On another note people really only find out now that the 122 is strong?

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I’ve read though most of the comments of this and almost everyone ignores or dismisses their ACTUAL QUESTION, they want to know what makes the M1A2 Abrams SEPv2 equal to the Leopard 2A7V!

The answer is they aren’t, the Leopard is obviously better in everyway except reload speed and some superficial crap I can’t experience because I play Britain, but from what it seems it’s the same thing as asking “why is the IS-7M treated as equal to the Centurion Mk.3 when the IS-7M is clearly better in armor, fire power and speed it has a stabilizer but that means nothing if you can’t even kill it before it kills you”.

The truth is they aren’t equal and one IS better but as of now you can’t put either in a different spot to balance it more, if you put the SEPv2 down it will absolutely murder challenger 2s and right now you can’t even go higher than 11.7.

And if we look at the Ariete AMV which is worse than the challengers in everyway but speed and pen yet it’s a HIGHER BR we can then piece together the fact gaijin DOESN’T actually care they just want money and they want us arguing instead banding together like the protests of last year, because changes cost money and if we can’t agree on what we want they won’t fix anything so we just “go to the greener grass” and hopefully spend money to get there.

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We didnt answer to that, because that is obvious currently and the problems of the abrams is a mayor debate. And are not fighing the matter that the 2A7V is better then the Sepv2
Many of the german community even said that the 2A7V would be to early to add, but gajin still went trough with it, but the thing just like every other nation we want our vehicles to be added as true as its originals as possible. Are we now not allowed to make our vehicles as good as it possibly could be, just because we are german player? The thing is we wouldnt mind to much if gajin clearly stated they dont wanna increase capabilitys further because of balancing. But at the same time the Strv122s exist with all more capable armor then the 2A7V.
Germany gets 1 good vehicle since 3 years and everyone immediatly calls for bullshit, in the mean time germany is griefing that gajin implemented it in such a rushed broken state and didnt give it any love.
Specialy annoying for the community is that they still make the Strv122 better in defense when that simply isnt true anymore

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I don’t think you read my whole comment, I ended up barely talking about the Abrams, I ended up talking more about Gaijin doing dumb stuff with vehicles just for money

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yeah, meaned more as additional explanation for everyone else as well