LAV-700AG - Next Generation Wheeled Assault Gun

Suggestions Ground
1
Would you like to see this in-game?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
If so, what BR?
  • 9.3
  • 9.7
  • 10.0
  • 10.3
  • I said no
0 voters

LAV-700AG - Next Generation Wheeled Assault Gun

LAV-700 (3105)
LAV-700 (3105)1024×768 93.2 KB

LAV-700AG in a warehouse.

Hi everyone,

Today I would like to suggest the LAV-700AG, a wheeled assault gun in service with the Saudi Arabia Royal Guard.

History:
This system is built by General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada, and features a Cockerill 3105 turret mated to the LAV 700 chassis. The LAV 700 is the current generation of LAV and heaviest of its class, based initially on the LAV Demonstrator. The LAV Demonstrator is in turn a derivative of the LAV 6.0 currently fielded by the Canadian Army, and in modification as the Stryker A1 with the US Army. The LAV family’s history can be traced back to the early 1980s, where General Motors of Canada purchased licenses for the Piranha I 8x8 from MOWAG of Switzerland for competition in the USMC’s LAV program.

F6uZSYiXYAAwfF8
F6uZSYiXYAAwfF81284×1180 164 KB

LAV 700AG in the city.

In 2014, an order for over 900 LAV 700s was placed and later reduced to 742. Of these, 119 were LAV 700AG. The LAV 700 was also purchased in APC, FSV, and AT variants. This deal saw substantial scrutiny in Canada, following Saudi Arabia’s assassination of reporter Jamal Kashoggi in its consulate in Turkey. Details on the vehicle in Saudi Arabian service are limited, as many parties to the initial deal are tied into non-disclosure agreements. It has unknown whether this vehicle has seen service in the Saudi-led coalition intervention in Yemen. Direct combat in this conflict had died down as of 2022, but negotiations are unstable due to Houthi attacks in the Red Sea.

LAV700-1
LAV 700AG on the road.

In July 2022, the Brazilian Army Logistic Command placed a request for proposal for a vehicle to replace its old fleet of Engesa EE-9 Cascavel armoured cars, armed with the Belgian Cockerill 90mm Mk III. This program entitled Viatura Vlindada de Combate de Cavalaria - Média Sobre Rodas, or VBC Cav - MSR, saw three contestants draw into the race to deliver a projected 221 vehicles with logistical support. These were the CIO Centauro II of Italy, the Norinco ST1-BR of China, and lastly the General Dynamics Land Systems LAV-700AG of Canada. Ultimately, the Centauro II won the contract.

LAV700-4
LAV700-41228×455 71.5 KB

Renders of the LAV 700AG for the VBC-Cav program.

Specifications:

Characteristics:

Combat Weight: ~30.618 kg
Length: 8.43m
Width: 3.1m
Height: 3.29m
Powerplant: Caterpillar C13 turbocharged diesel engine, developing 711 hp
Transmission: 7 speed automatic
Crew: 3 - Commander, Gunner, Driver

Protection:

All around - Level 4 STANAG 4569
2 x 4 clusters of smoke launchers on turret (80mm Galix)
Laser Warning System

Armaments:

Cockerill 3105 turret with Cockerill 105 HP gun:

  • Ammunition: 12 in turret bustle, 12 in the hull.
    • M833 APFSDS
    • M735 APFSDS
    • M393 HESH
    • M456A1 HEAT-FS
    • It is unknown whether the Saudis have acquired Falarick 105 ATGMs for this system
  • Vertical Guidance: +42/-10 degrees
  • Traverse: electro-mechanical gun and turret drive
  • Automatic bustle autoloader

7.62mm coaxial machine gun
12.7mm machine gun commander’s MG

Optics and Fire Control:

Stabilized dual axis day/night sights with thermal
Hunter/Killer sight with commander override
Laser rangefinder with ballistic computer

LAV700AG105MMCMI
LAV700AG105MMCMI1920×1373 215 KB

LAV 700AG on display.

Please let me know what you think with a comment below. How do you think this vehicle should be introduced to the game?

Thanks!

Hydroxideblue

References:

1 Like
2

At a glance it looks like it’d play near identical to the CT-CV 105HP. Seems like a 10.0 vehicle to me.

1 Like
3

OP is correct. Canadian export:

Spoiler

image
image1896×841 73.7 KB

I did start writing a suggestion for this vehicle a few months ago, but I mothballed it because I was never satisfied with the information available. Anyway, the history of this vehicle is inaccurate. The vehicle does have a rather funny, if not controversial history:

Wall of text

The LAV 700 Cockerill 3105 (LAV 700 C3105) is a wheeled armoured vehicle currently in service with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA). Boasted by the Belgian company, John Cockerill Defence (JCD) as being the “deal of the century”, the supply of these vehicles to KSA was not without controversy, legal action and rumours of corruption.

In the early 2000s Belgian company, Cockerill was approached by KSA for the supply of new weapon systems for their armed forces. However, the contract hit a roadblock since it required JCD to provide training facilities for the Saudi Arabian soldiers that would crew these weapon systems. In 2011 the CEO (and 80% owner) of JCD, Bernard Serin approached the then French minister of defence, Gerard Longuet and informed him of how his company was on the cusp of a “juicy military contract”. An agreement would subsequently be struck which would see the renovation of soon-to-be retired military barracks located in the French commune of Commercy. Under this agreement, the French government provided JCD with 2 million euros of public funds to convert the campus into training facilities and allow the Belgian group to sign the contract with Saudi Arabia. In 2013 Gerard Longuet was appointed to the board of John Cockerill.

Picture2
Picture21544×1210 479 KB

With the provision of training facilities guaranteed, JCD signed the contract with Saudi Arabia in 2014 which would result in the supply of C3105 turrets. The armament is produced by the French subsidiary of JCD, CMI Defence SAS and the turret is then assembled in Belgium. Additionally, CMI Defence SAS’ membership in the French industrial group, GICAT ensured that it could rely on the participation of French industry to supply state-of-the-art fire control systems as well as sub-systems. As JCD does not produce chassis’, General Dynamics Land Systems-Canada was sub-contracted for the supply of the LAV 700 as part of a 4.5 billion euros deal.

Picture3
Picture31286×756 136 KB

In 2019 the contract would once again hit a roadblock when it came to light that war crimes and human rights violations were being perpetrated by KSA during the Saudi-led intervention in Yemen. Consequently, Cockerill’s export licenses for arms to KSA were suspended. To circumvent these sanctions, Cockerill would export the C3105 turret to Canada to be assembled and then re-exported to Saudi Arabia. According to SIPRI, 136 Cockerill turrets (including the C3105) were delivered to KSA despite JCD’s export licenses being suspended. Cockerill is now currently in the process of establishing the production of turrets in Saudi Arabia to fulfill the remainder of the contract.

Picture1
Picture12078×1298 416 KB

Sauce:

TL;DR: This vehicle was a Belgian contract and export. Canada was only sub-contracted by Belgium. Ergo, it should really go to the Belgian tree - that is the French tech tree in lieu of Saudi Arabia being represented in game.

The later bid for the Brazilian tender appears to have been purely from Canada, however. So it could go to both Canada and Belgium.

1 Like
4

Cockerill 3105… I’m going crazy.

5

Think we’ve run into the historic case of multinational partnerships not having clearly defined national boundaries. My only issue with the Belgian tree is the vehicle is assembled in Canada; and has been seen frequently coming out of the plant - to the point one almost collided with my buddy at a gas station. I think manufacture trumps prime contractor.

Still hard to put into a single container, but Gaijin’s rules on operator nation would have it be under a Saudi flag. My hope is in a Canadian ground forces tree, mainly because of the LAV platform. Saudi Arabia has had prior orders that followed a similar pattern of LAV+Euro turret, like TS-90, Lancelot, and LCTS 90MP

6

I don’t deny this. But the only reason this occurred is because Cockerill had been sanctioned and couldn’t export directly to Saudi Arabia. Else they would’ve been assembled in Belgium.

Yes, but this vehicle was ordered from Cockerill. Saudi Arabia most likely told JCD that they had to use a LAV chassis for the sake of commonality.

7

I mean yeah I get that, but those are hypotheticals. Anyway, it’s nice to see the turret arrive with the Boxer!

Edit: I didn’t want to post-bump, so here’s a more definitive background on the GDLS-C/Cockerill prime contractor/sub-contractor debate taken from the thread on Cockerill guns in Machinery of War.

The article you list is fairly ambiguous on who the subcontractor is (Amnesty International France, 2020), but I understand how you could take the quote either way. It even goes on to say that Cockerill was charged with delivering 700 turrets to equip the 928 Canadian vehicles to be sent to Riyadh:

“Un contrat de sous-traitance avec la firme canadienne General Dynamics Land System-Canada (GDLS-C) pour un montant de 4,5 milliards d’euros. Elle est chargée de livrer environ 700 tourelles-canons pour équiper les 928 véhicules blindés légers canadiens envoyés à Riyad.”

However, Chase and LeBlanc (2016) clarify that GDLS-C and CMI Defence are contractor and subcontractor respectively:

“Some of the armoured combat vehicles Canada is selling to Saudi Arabia in a controversial $15-billion arms deal will feature medium- or high-calibre weapons supplied by a European subcontractor – such as a powerful cannon designed to shoot anti-tank missiles.”

“Details about the turreted weapons have been slow to emerge because both General Dynamics Land Systems (Canada) and its Belgian supplier CMI Defence, part of CMI Groupe, are saying little about the contract and subcontract.”

The “contract of the century” quote in the Amnesty International France article comes from this article by RTBF, who state that Cockerill is the subcontractor to GLDS-C (RTBF, 2014):

“En fait, l’entreprise sérésienne est sous-traitant pour le compte d’un groupe canadien. Mais cette commande est capitale: elle consacre la montée en puissance de la branche militaire de la société CMI.”

In fact, the contract for sale to the Saudis was renegotiated by the Canadian federal government (Sevunts, 2020) after the breakdown of trade relations following Jamal Khashoggi’s assassination. Canadian Commercial Corporation is listed as the prime contractor (Chase, 2015) (Perry, 2016).

As well, GDLS owns the license to the finished product as they continue to market it, specifically with the Brazilian Army’s VBC-Cav MSR program.

References:

Amnesty International France. (2020). Armes la France, terre d’accueil. Amnesty International. Retrieved from: [Révélations] En France, un centre de formation pour des soldats saoudiens - Amnesty International France

Chase, S. (2015). Ottawa’s arms deal with Saudi Arabia contingent on secrecy. The Globe and Mail. Retrieved from: Ottawa’s arms deal with Saudi Arabia contingent on secrecy - The Globe and Mail

Chase, S. & LeBlanc, D. (January 6, 2016). Armoured vehicles in Saudi deal will pack lethal punch. The Globe and Mail. Retrieved from: Armoured vehicles in Saudi deal will pack lethal punch - The Globe and Mail

RBTF. (August, 2014). L’entreprise sérésienne CMI décroche un “contrat du siècle” en Arabie. RBTF. Retrieved from: L’entreprise sérésienne CMI décroche un ‘contrat du siècle’ en Arabie - RTBF Actus

Perry, D. (March 21, 2016). The other side of Canada’s deal with the Saudis. Vanguard Canada. Retrieved from: The other side of Canada’s deal with the Saudis – Vanguard

Sevunts, L. (April 10, 2020). Canada cuts new deal with Saudi Arabia, clearing way for more arms sales. Radio Canada International. Retrieved from: https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2020/04/10/canada-cuts-new-deal-with-saudi-arabia-clearing-way-for-more-arms-sales/