For those of you who don’t know, “lap loading” is the practice of prematurely extracting a round of ammunition from the storage bin and holding it in one’s lap in order to reduce the delay between the first and second shot to a minimum.
How do you feel about introducing this mechanic to ALL vehicles in WT it is applicable to? Which is to say, all ground vehicles that have at least one dedicated human loader and use unitary ammunition.
It will be important to allow each player to choose whether to enable or disable this mechanic, because it has its pros and cons.
Pro’s:
It will give the tank the ability to fire the first two shots in quick succession, with a much shorter reload time than normal, even faster than when using the “ready rack”. I don’t think I need to tell you how important it is to be the first to land an effective hit in armored warfare.
Con’s:
The round that the loader is holding is not immaginary, but is physically present as a 3D object inside the tank. If a player opts to use this mechanic, many penetrating hits that otherwise wouldve just killed the loader would now result in an instant death from ammunition fire.
I realize there are still
many details left to work out, but I think this is enough to start the topic.
Would you like to see this mechanic implemented into the game?
This is something that would be pretty nifty. I feel like there should be a short cooldown of sorts where basically you fire one round and the reduced reload applies but if you fire another seconds after the reload ends it takes the standard reload time. Maybe like a 5 second delay before lap loading would apply again
Realistically, tank crews are specifically instructed not to lap load, for safety reasons. This would also hurt Russian MBTs even more than they already are, as they already have the longest reloads.
The only time I’d think this would be fair to implement is when the tank is totally stationary, firing multiple rounds. But how often do you do this without moving at all?
This would universally nerf all auto loaded tanks, which isn’t necessary. Loading times are considered “soft” by Gaijin, IE they can be manipulated within the realm of reason for balance reasons. If you think a specific manually loaded tank is underperforming, then advocate for a reload buff for that tank.
Human loader vs autoloader each has its pros and cons. Why autoloaders should have only their strengths modelled, but not their weaknesses?
Currently the reload speed doesn’t change even if the vehicle is flipped upside down. Why should driving prevent the loader from holding a round in his lap as he sits in his position?
My proposal is not aimed specifically to nerf autoloading tanks, but to add more depth to the game. If it will weaken certain vehicles, well, we have a tool to adjust the game balance called the Battle Rating.
Gaijin won’t implement this because they use reload time as a game balance mechanism. Its also reflected in the “loading skill” level, which you can presume your “aced crew” is already lap loading.
Autoloaders do have their weaknesses modeled: they need ammo in the ready rack to function and Gaijin is implementing more and more autoloader mechanisms which can be shot out.
Because then it would be a universal buff to manually loaded tanks without any drawback. (Ammo being held by the loader and being able to be damaged doesn’t matter, because if you’re hitting the ammo you’ll be hitting the loader anyway, and thus crippling the tank regardless.)
And Gaijin has said that loading speeds can be manipulated within reason to buff and nerf tanks. Instead of buffing all manually loaded tanks, buff the reload speed of tanks that actually need it.
For example, at top tier one of the Leclers biggest advantages is the 5 second autoloader, but if the Abrams can out reload the Leclerc, then the Leclerc loses one of its biggest advantages. This could also be said for the Type 10, depending on how much the reload is improved.
This wouldn’t even apply to most top tier MBT’s because they no longer use full metal casings, but instead sort of cellulose casing that could potentially be damaged during lap loading
No, these two things aren’t equivalent. Crew skill improves the overall reload time, while this mechanic will only reduce the time between first and second shot.
Reading the top post before posting in a topic is hard, I know, but try to scrape what is left of your attention span and use it sometime.
This is a plausible reason not to include this mechanic to high tier vehicles (at least for now). I’m sure @jspene will be delighted.
Which is also wrong because there isn’t any reason why an experienced loader can’t/didn’t just keep pulling the next round out and have it ready to load. Which is what they did.
What you are asking for is a needless complication and reflects a lack of understanding about how the game AND reality works.
My… what a compelling discussion style you have there. /s
Let’s examine in detail what happens: After the loader rams the round into the breech, he moves away and the gun fires, then automatically ejects the spent casing. This takes place in ~1sec.
If you think the loader can bend down, grab a round, lift it up and turn it into position nose first, ready to load, in that amount of time, it is you who doesn’t know “how reality works” mate.
Wow really? You think a TC can check the breech is clear announce “Fire” and the gunner can say “On the way” in less than a second? You think that the gun is perfectly on all the time and that the Gunner is always just itching to pull the trigger? You think the loader going ahead and “bend down, grab a round, lift it up and turn it into position nose first, ready to load” doesn’t shave time off of loading?
And so on and so forth.
Maybe all this bureaucratic red tape just to fire one round is fine during peace time or when shelling enemy infantry positions from a distance, but I think a simple yell “Clear!” by the loader after he finished loading the gun would be enough when time is of the essence.
What does this have to do with it? If the distance to target is great enough and firing the gun has upset the vehicles stability enough to warrant waiting for it to settle in and re-adjusting the aim, then it’s what the player should do. But in many situations in WT, the engagement ranges are so small that there is little need for this and you can fire your rounds as fast as loader can load them.
I believe the player should be given this decision and let them decide what they need most in a given situation, speed or accuracy.
I dont get what you’re getting to here? Pls elaborate if you want.
Maybe also make that if ur lap loading u can’t switch ammo type until that round is in the breach and that u need to press a keybind like “R” to do it.
Damn! You got me!
I’ve only suggested this idea to buff that one nation in the game that uses unitary rounds, unlike all the others who only use separate loading for all calibers from 37 to 155mm.
And I would’ve gotten away with it if not for you, meddlesome hero, discovering my ploy and saving the day!
You know, this is a reasonable idea. Should also apply to many autoloaders, especially Soviet ones, which currently have a reload rate that is an average accounting for rotating the bustle to select a shell in the loading process.
Some considerations:
Ammo rack on the loaders lap, might not be popular among many users especially NATO vehicles which would essentially have their blowout panels nullified
Switching ammo types would of course remove any loading bonus, for a short time while the shell is swapped out
Might be pretty difficult to code, existing burst fire mechanics rely on the ready rack mechanic but this would be something new
Reload rate is entirely a “balancing” feature and not realistic, that’s why the Abrams has a higher fire rate than any other manually loaded top MBT despite having the same gun and internal layout, and British and German crews often beating the American in tank fire rate competitions
When are we going to make manual loading impossible above say 40km/h? Most manually loaded tanks already have a sustained rate of fire which is faster than in reality too. You ignore all the ahistorical buffs which manual loading already has.