As far as I have seen in my research, it seems that the penetration of the KwK 44 128 mm gun on the Jagdtiger(and the Maus and E-100) doesn’t have as much penetration as it does in real life. I am referring to the Heavy Charge PzGr 43 the KwK 44 fires in game. Here are some sources: Germany - 12.8cm Pak 44 - 12.8cm Panzerabwehrkanone 44
If I am wrong, I am happy to be proven so, but considering the poor performance of the Jagdtiger in game, this small buff would make the slow reload of the gun worth it, at least.
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All or mostly weapons in-game have their penetration values buffed or nerfed for balance purposes, or else you would see Jagdtiger at 8.3.
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“The information we use to calculate the penetration tables, flight times and the hit probability comes from the Gun Calibre, the Shell Mass(Kg) and the muzzle velocity, plus range reductions to allow for gravity and wind resistance. This calculation originally came from a pre-war Krupp calculation which has been modified, and seems to fit the actual test results.” quote from provided website, they’re just using a different calculation to gaijin, its impossible to know which calculation is more realistic, but I personally would trust gaijin more for something like this. either way the data is not from real life testing
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but the jagdtiger of all things? i do really think, as a jagdtiger main, that it should get something as a trade off for the horrendous reload? it aint underpowered, but it aint needin a nerf!
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This penetration is calculated, this shell is actually overperforming, in the game.
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Round pens are done via a formula. Pen tables are no longer used.
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Post your stats
I got you.
I guess i should post mine just to be fair.
He doesnt have a terrible k/d in it.
Jagdtiger is not a bad td. But it is limited in the maps that it can do well on.
Might not, it looks like they are only tiny bit better than the one the AMX-50s heavy/M103 uses, but the post pen damage will justify it being higher for sure.
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the m103 also, should be able to easily pen or perforate the IS-3’s upper glacis, it also deserves a buff, considering the uselessness of solid shot
anyways im just considering that the jagdtiger is my favorite vehicle, but it does deserve a little more penetration as it’s reload makes it torturous to use
It wont change unless you have sources to change the round speed and/or weight
I prefer buff kwk 44’s reload time, I can’t understand why 2 loaders’ reload time should be worse than those 120mm guns(like T34 or M103)
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Same like the Tortoise, it has like 200 crews in there but the reload for a 94mm is considered slow as hell lol
WT reloads are very fake sadly. In real life a Conqueror loaded HESH around 9s, like an IS-2/3.
these are almost the same data from German sources
Most Realistic Penetration Table for the 128 mm PzGr. 43 (APCBC-HE, 28.3 kg projectile, muzzle velocity 950 m/s)
- Against Rolled Homogeneous Armor (RHA).
- German tests typically used 30° from vertical (standard for anti-tank tables; values listed are for sloped armor at 30°).
- Penetration at 0° (perpendicular/vertical) is approximately 15–20% higher (due to less projectile deflection and better normalization with APCBC nose).
| Distance | Penetration at 30° (mm RHA) – value from German tables | Approximate penetration at 0° (mm RHA) | Notes / Typical Sources |
|---|---|---|---|
| 100 m | 271 mm | 314 mm | Maximum near the muzzle |
| 500 m | 239–312 mm (average ~271–312 mm across sources) | 276–360 mm | Peak cited: ~312 mm at 500 m / 30° (Wikipedia, wwiitanks.co.uk) |
| 1,000 m | 218–230 mm | 252–265 mm | Classic value: 230 mm @ 1 km / 30° |
| 1,500 m | ~199–210 mm | ~230–245 mm | — |
| 2,000 m | 161–200 mm | 187–230 mm | 200 mm @ 2 km / 30° common |
| 3,000 m | 145–173 mm | 168–200 mm | Maintains good long-range performance |
- Approximate impact velocities (typical ballistic drop for this heavy, aerodynamic projectile):
- 100 m: ~940–945 m/s
- 500 m: ~880–900 m/s
- 1,000 m: ~830–860 m/s
- 2,000 m: ~750–800 m/s
Important Notes for the Most Accurate Real-World Values
- At 0° (vertical/perpendicular): Use the right-hand column if the target plate is perpendicular (e.g., side of a tank or pure vertical test). Many real tests were at 30°, so 0° values are derived/estimated.
- Against steeper slopes (e.g., 60° like on IS-2 or T-34): Effective penetration drops significantly (~50–60% of the 0° value), due to deflection and spalling.
- Explosive filler (786.5 g): Only activates after penetration, causing severe internal damage (fragments, fire, overpressure), but does not increase penetration itself.
- Variations: Some sources list muzzle velocity as 940 m/s (slight drop), but 950 m/s is the standard for the heavy anti-tank charge. In real tests, this gun was extremely powerful, outperforming the 8.8 cm PaK 43 in long-range consistency.
The primary German original sources referenced for the penetration tables of the 12.8 cm PaK 44 (or KwK 44) with the PzGr. 43 projectile are historical documents from the WWII era, primarily from the Krupp company (the manufacturer of the gun and responsible for much of the ballistic testing and calculations) and official German military testing records.
Here are the key German sources commonly cited or derived from in reliable historical compilations:
- Krupp pre-war and wartime ballistic calculations (Krupp-Versuchsdaten or penetration formulas): Many modern tables (such as those on wwiitanks.co.uk) explicitly state that their penetration data is based on a pre-war Krupp calculation that was later modified to better match actual test results from firing trials. Krupp developed and tested the gun (adapted from the naval 12.8 cm SK C/34), and their internal formulas were the foundation for official performance predictions and tables used by the German army.
- Bundesarchiv (German Federal Archives) documents: These include wartime reports, production records, proof-firing data, and ballistic test results from proving grounds like Meppen or Unterlüß (1944–1945). Sites and historians frequently reference Bundesarchiv files for the PaK 44 / KwK 44, including proposals for variants (e.g., longer barrels like L/66 from Krupp albums and blueprints dated November 1944). Specific file references sometimes mentioned include RH 8/3326 (for related Panzerjäger proposals involving the 12.8 cm gun).
- WaPrüf 4 (Heer Weapons Testing Department) reports and standardized firing tables: German army (Heer) tests used a 50% success criterion (often requiring 5 consecutive complete penetrations with the explosive filler intact and functional for bursting). These were conducted against RHA plates at 30° slope (standard for anti-tank evaluations), with armor hardness around 80–90 kg/mm² (~240–280 BHN). Some firing tables list muzzle velocity around 920–950 m/s for the heavy charge PzGr. 43, with penetration figures like ~219–228 mm at 500 m / 30° in certain service-rated data.
- Captured or postwar-accessed German documents (e.g., via Allied intelligence): Examples include ADM 213/951 (a British postwar report compiling captured German penetration tables) and other internal Krupp or WaPrüf reports from 1944–1945.
These primary sources are not publicly available online in full (they are archival), but they are cross-referenced and compiled in secondary works by historians like Thomas L. Jentz (e.g., in books such as “Germany’s Panther Tank”, “Tiger and King Tiger Tanks”, or “Panzertruppen”) and in specialized sites that cite Bundesarchiv + Krupp data directly.
The most commonly reproduced tables (e.g., 230 mm at 1,000 m / 30°, or 312 mm at 500 m / 30°) come from these German origins via adjustments for real test fits, rather than purely theoretical formulas.
I also created this table show the difference between Real vs Warthunder in penetration.
REAL PENETRATION AT 30° CONVERTED TO 0° VERTICAL vs WAR THUNDER 0° VERTICAL
(PzGr 43 APCBC - 12.8 cm KwK 44 L/55)
Real base: 220 mm at 1,000 m / 30° (Lexikon der Wehrmacht)
Conversion factor: ×1.1547 (1 / cos(30°))
| Distance | Real 30° est. (mm) | Real 0° converted (mm) | WT 0° (mm) | WT Difference (%) |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 10 m | 249 | 288 | 272 | -5.6% |
| 100 m | 246 | 284 | 269 | -5.3% |
| 500 m | 235 | 272 | 257 | -5.5% |
| 1,000 m | 220 | 254 | 242 | -4.7% |
Notes:
- WT is consistently ~5% more conservative at 0° vertical.
- Small difference → good overall realism.
================================================================================
PENETRATION AT 30° INCLINED: WAR THUNDER vs REAL GERMAN ESTIMATED
(PzGr 43 APCBC)
Correction factor used: 220 / 184 = 1.196 (~19.6% higher on real at 1 km)
| Distance | WT 30° (mm) | Real 30° est. (mm) | Difference (%) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 10 m | 208 | 249 | -16.5% |
| 100 m | 206 | 246 | -16.3% |
| 500 m | 197 | 236 | -16.5% |
| 1,000 m | 184 | 220 | -16.4% |
| 1,500 m | 172 | 206 | -16.5% |
| 2,000 m | 165 | 197 | -16.4% |
Notes:
- WT consistently underestimates ~16-17% at 30° compared to the German “Durchschlag komplett” criterion.
- A ~+20% buff in the game would make it almost exact with the real 30° data.
- WT criterion = 50% chance; real = complete/intact penetration (upper limit).
Gajin uses its own standard formula. You enter penetrator / shell mass / material type / velocity etc etc and there you have the penetration values. Historical values aren’t used anymore.
It usually benefits countries with inferior material research / quality, since this doesn’t appear in the formula. Just idealized standard values. Countries with good historical values usually got reduced penetration. Still remember German 20mm guns penetrating up to 64mm, after the formula was applied its like 50 or 49mm. Lost almost 1/3 pen, which is massive lol. While certain other countries got more than they had irl.
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they use a calculator now to push they agenda about NATO/West vs Russia/Soviet tanks sadly.