Literally every German tank during World War 2.
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I’ve been sick of copy-paste all the way back when we simply referred to them as captured vehicles. Might as well have a Tiger or Tiger II in every tree. Why even have trees? Just have a single unspecified tree that follows technological progression.
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So, should the US and Britain get king tigers 2? They probably captured some after the war. The Soviet tree would probably be full of German and Us vehicles if captured vehicles are added to a nation. I think gaijin only adds captured vehicles are premiums anyway since otherwise there would be no point to tech trees at all
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The US did end up capturing a couple, one was even operated for a bit until it broke down and was later recovered, shipped back to the US, and placed on display sans its left side armor. England captured a couple as well including the V2 Prototype which is being restored to running condition at Bovington
which annoyingly cant be added to the game as some how the museum owns the copyright to that specific tank. They didnt make it! they dont own the makers! how can one copyright a tank they didnt even capture!?
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Copyright is a strange beast to understand; it’s less about them copyrighting the design and the Tiger I/Tiger II V2 themselves, and more about them copyrighting the specific Tanks in question. Hence, “Tiger 131” is copyrighted, whereas Tiger 132 isn’t. Its strange, but IG with it being so iconic its understandable
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thats literally untrue lol. Having to shoot other tiger 2s and not cardboard boxes of USSR is a HUGE difference.
Same as shooting USSR tanks with chinese T-62. Very different on feeling.
where were you people when they added leopard 1s and 2s everywhere and when they copied 72s to germany and italy?
No. Adds nothing necessary, unique or interesting to the USSR tree - just pure copy-paste.
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same as 72m`s and 55s
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Yep. Don’t like those, for the same reasons.
-1
the main reason i play Germany is for the tiger II
the main reason i play USSR is the IS-2 with 122m gun
same idea for other nations
this will kill the game adding captured tanks for other nations will kill the point of playing that nation !
US can get king tiger and USSR can get a king tiger and France can get a king tiger !
if gajin add historical matchmaking to the game for ground RB i see no issue other wise my vote is no !
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Those were actually used in combat. I don’t think any King Tiger was captured and then used in combat. By this logic half of the German tech tree should be available for both the USA and USSR.
As someone else rightfully pointed out, there is no lack of capable heavy tanks for Russia around 6.7. If you want something with comparable gameplay, you should get the Object 248 and use it. Its quite amazing, low reload, great cannon, decent armor.
If the Russians get a premium King Tiger, there is literally zero reason why the Germans shouldn’t get a premium IS-2, seeing as they captured a few. They used them as target practice to test the armor weak points, but that shouldn’t matter considering the Russians never used the King Tigers they captured either.
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There is some evidence of them being used for a short time. We do know Tiger 1s were also put into service with a certain group.
Here’s some examples.
Spoiler
During Operation Bagration, the 28th Guards Tank Brigade already had two Tiger tanks (as of July 27, 1944, its roster included 32 T-34s, 13 T-70s, 4 SU-122s, 4 SU-76s, and 2 PzKpfw VIs). However, by mid-autumn 1944, the brigade’s composition had become much more homogeneous: 65 T-34s and one PzKpfw VI Tiger. Where the extra Tiger came from and where the second one went is unknown.
Examples of units with captured armored vehicles
Date Unit Allied armored vehicles Axis armored vehicles
Jun 27, 1941 8th Mechanized Corps? 13 Pz.III and Pz.IV (T-3 and T-4)
May 5, 1942 150th Tank Brigade? 1 KV, 7 T-34, 7 BT, 18 T-26, 1 T-40, 1 T-60 1 Pz.III (T-3)
Jul 25, 1942 32nd Tank Brigade? 1 Pz.II (T-2), 3 StuG.III (SU-75)
Mar 1942 121st Tank Brigade? 3 Pz.III (T-3)
May 14, 1942 52nd Tank Brigade 5 KV, 2 T-34, 13 T-60, 3 M3 Stuart, 1 Valentine 1 Pz.IV (T-4)
5 Jul 1942 107th Separate Tank Battalion 1 KV, 2 T-34, 1 BT-7 2 Pz.III (T-3), 1 Pz.IV (T-4), 3 StuG.III (SU-75), 1 Pz.I (T-1)
1 Aug 1942 Separate Tank Battalion “B” 9 T-60 12 Pz.III (T-3), 7 Pz.IV (T-4), 2 StuG, 10 Pz.38(t)
1 Apr 1943 151st Tank Brigade 3 M3 Stuart, 25 Valentines 4 Pz.IV (T-4), 5 Pz.III (T-3), 2 Pz.II (T-2)
1 Apr 1943 266 dept. t. baht. ? 4 Pz.III (T-3)
6 May 1943 62 dept. t. baht. 3 T-34, 15 Valentines 2 Pz.III (T-3), 1 Pz.IV (T-4)
30 May 1943 75 dept. t. baht. 15 Valentines 9 Pz.III (T-3), 1 Pz.IV (T-4)
10 Jun 1943 29 t. hull 129 T-34, 84 T-70, 1 KV 1 Pz.38(t)
7 Jul 1943 244 t.p. 16 M3 Grant, 2 M3 Stuart 9 Pz.III (T-3), 4 Pz.IV (T-4)
10 Aug 1943 1938 SAP 2 SU-122, 2 SU-76 2 StuG.III (SU-75)
28 Aug 1943 dept. t. bat., 44 army 1 M3 Grant, 1 M3 Stuart 13 Pz.III (T-3), 3 Pz.IV (T-4)
4 Sep 1943 1448 SAP 14 SU-76 and SU-122 1 Pz.III (T-3)
11 Nov 1943 213 t.br. 4 T-34 11 Pz.IV (T-4), 35 Pz.III (T-3)
November 1943 53 Guards Brigade ? up to 30 armored personnel carriers
July 27, 1944 28 Guards T.B. 32 T-34, 13 T-70, 4 SU-122, 4 SU-76 2 Pz.VI (T-6 Tiger)
1 Sep 1944 5th Guards Brigade 23 T-34, 47 T-70 2 StuG.40, 1 Pz.IV (T-4)
10 Sep 1944 detachment battalion, 5 Guards brigade. 32 Hungarian armored units
30 Oct 1944 8 Turan, 2 Toldi, 3 Zrinji, 2 Nimrod
16 Jul 1944 511 etc. 2 T-34, 17 Valentine 4 Pz.V (T-5 Panther)
3 Mar 1945 991 SAP 16 SU-76 3 Pz.V (T-5 Panther)
7 Mar 1945 dept. SAP, 27th Army? 8 Hummel (SU-150), 6 Nashorn (SU-88)
March 12, 1945 Combined T-Battalion, 27th Army 5 SU-76 1 Wespe (SU-105), 6 StuG (SU-75)
It’s kinda messy, I’m sorry.
true brotha
Ill myself vote against any clones with no modifications
it was by both USSR and US, tho the US one didnt even shoot once being on the battlefield…
IS-2 is as effective as tiger 2? Good joke
weird logic. Even 248 is not half as effective as Tiger 2, and its literally an event vehicle. Same as to say “if germany wants a decent MBT they should go buy PT16/14” tbh
thy they already have two KVs and t-34, all more than effective on their battle rating
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There are a number of event vehicles superior to tech-tree versions. Soviets have a good bulk of them. KV-2 (1940), T-10A, PT-76-57, all soviet event vehicles that outclass their free or even paid premium counterparts. The 90mm AMX-50 is an event vehicle I’ve wanted pretty badly since I’ve started playing France this last year, but the coupon for it is quite expensive. It fills a kind of niche vehicle at that tier that I enjoy quite a lot, that being an auto-loading tank with APHE. Thankfully the Char 25t has the same exact turret, so its not a necessity to buy the AMX-50 variant.
TLDR; being an event vehicle shouldn’t disqualify it from being a solution to someone’s niche playstyle needs. If you so desperately want a tank that is EXACTLY like a Tiger II, play Germany or buy the Swedish one and play them instead.
Also the Object 248 is amazing, I don’t think you understand just how incredible its 100mm cannon is with only a 8.5 second reload.
Yeah, its called a niche. If you want a fast loading heavy tank while playing Russia, use the 248. If you want an autoloader on a MBT while playing Germany then you’d have to buy the PT16/14. Is that really that crazy to suggest? This is like saying I should make a forum suggestion to add a captured Sherman 76mm tank to Germany just because no German tanks at mid-tier have stabilizers. Gaijin removed the 75mm Sherman from purchase for good reason. There are already enough copy-paste tanks, so captured tanks either need to serve an important role in a sparse tech-tree (e.g. Sweden’s King Tiger, Italy’s Hungarian Tiger, neither country has a heavy tank), or they need to be uniquely modified (German T-34, KV-2, KV-1C, Swedish Sherman III/IV, KV-1, etc).
All also higher battle ratings than their Russian counterparts.
Tell me you don’t play Russia without telling me you don’t play Russia. Yes its just as capable, as I said. Also just as “effective,” as you put it. Just because two heavies play differently doesn’t mean they can’t be equally as powerful in practice. IS-2 has incredible angled pen that the Tiger II’s fast reload or extra velocity won’t be able to compete with. I’d take an IS-2 with BR-471D over a Tiger II’s 88mm any day when facing cold war tanks like the M48 or T32. Overpressure is incredibly useful, one well placed shot goes a long way.
From what I remember, the US did at least try, but the thing broke down after a couple of hours. The tale of its capture is interesting as well. A Sherman from the 740th Tank Battalion stumbled on it at night during the Battle of the Bulge. They noted that the Tiger was in a defensive position but didn’t really react to them. So to figure out what was going on, the Sherman crew fired a star shell at it. The Germans, thinking they were under attack, bailed out and ran; the tank was captured; and the commander and three of his crew boarded it, started it up, and drove it towards the front. The thing didn’t make it and broke down, and was later recovered. Nowadays, it’s enjoying its retirement in Georgia.
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yeah that sounds about right for a Tiger
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Even the common hauscat spends the majority of the day out of action (asleep). Imagine how much more unbalanced this massive thing’s work/sleep schedule must’ve been.
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And thats the entire point!
both US and Germany have pretty much superior techs in tech tree at rank IV, and USSR is obliged to use event machinery if it wants to be HALF as effective at tier IV.
well, USSR`s KV-2-40 is premium at german tree, PT-76-57 got nerfed much and now aint that effective anymore tho (in my opinion, Fox or the Object 906 are now somewhat better light tanks), ant t-10A? Idk, it is better than IS-4 for sure, and its not in any way a bad machine, but to call it superior?
i own one tho and i would certainly prefer to play AMX-50-100 better
well, it sure should tho. Event vehicles are hard to obtain. Making them toy for maybe 10% of playerbase. So even if it technically can count as a lineup material, its hard to believe that it makes a huge difference to overall community, e.g. it does not show up much in games so it makes no difference to winrate or balance.
Making that point, i mostly base my sayings on Gaijin`s “We add Oplot-T to make japanese tree have different gameplay” (i only read that part in russian so i dont make a quote here, just rephrasing) and same said about hungarian subtree and Bhishma. So the same should be applied to USSR which operates somewhat worst machines on several battle ratings of an entire “big three”.
i mean, i certainly would as i already have all big three made to top tier.
And i would love to see that logic applied everywhere around teh game - if you want T-72, go play USSR. If you want 2a4 - go play Germany. Ect.
But it seems to me that USSR`s great machinery is being given to all and any country, and the USSR does not get the same treatment at ratings when it needs it.
idk. IS-2s base makes that gun pretty hard to use anyway, and it still underperformes if compared to KT 88mm. Not even talking about KTs base being far superior to IS-2s.
“niche” is not something hard to obtain, its something that is hard to master and use properly effective. PT16/14 is easy to use, so its not niche, but its hugely hard to obtain.
I would say that Challenger 2s are niche - their gameplay is unique and they are somewhat effective when played properly. But they are hard to master. However they arent hard to obtain so everyone can try their gameplay.
If i want a machine with great armor + great cannon + effective + at KT`s rating or less - what should i use?
USSR does not come close to such a machine. It has IS-2. IS-2 has bad cannon as it shoots slower, penetrates fewer millimeters, and shots likes to dissapear in tracks, and also has bad turret rotation speed and vertical aim angles.
IS-2 moves as bad as KT, and it has weaker armor and less survivabiity. Same being said can also apply to Obj.248, including the gun - it still has bad aim speed and angles, and underperforms with penetration compared to Tiger 2, thy its reload gets great.
Same goes for the US: they have T34 which has great cannon with a bit slower reload that KT but higher penetration, which also has a great T34 base. They have T26E5 which has top tier armor at its battle rating, but has weaker cannon that is still fast reloading and has great APHE and angles, they have T26E4 with a cannon easilly compared to Tiger 2 in effectiveness tho a bit slower reload (still shoots twice when USSR shoots once. And they also have premium T29 which is literally most OP tank at 7.0 ingame.
It is not if we talk about unique gameplay, but it is if we talk about balance. Event vehicles dont have massive effect on winrates after maybe two months after event end. And suggesting using an event vehicle (that maybe 10% of players have and/or use) as a counterpart of a tech tree (which is massively used and always seen in matches) is somewhat strange to do at my opinion.
Tho i may agree to use premium machinery as it is quite more affordable than event ones, and you meet them plenty.
It may be valid, tho thats not the reason USSR players want a KT. the main reason is that KT is OP machinery which meets USSR`s 6.7 lineup.
(for the same reason they removed the T-34 Prototype tho, meaning that has nothing to do with uniquiness of the machine)
75mm sherman was if i remember correctly a ground forces test preorder pack. So they made it unique reward as they did with T-34 prototype and some planes.
agreed
So that role would be a “universal great heavy tank to make USSR`s lineup stronger as USSRs own heavy tanks are either just bad or niche”, no?
Tho they have additions for it!
KV-1B has the same rating, KV-1-747 has higher but it brings a MUCH better cannon. The T-34-747 gets the higher rating than T-34-42 for additional frontal armor (and the T-34E in USSR`s tech tree has a weaker turret).
Good take but…
i grinded USSR with the IS-2 Revenge and t-44-122.
tho i have small amount of play on tech tree IS-2-44s because they are pain to play at stock and i already have higher rating. So why bother
No they arent? THey are in every way worse but still stuch at the same BR.
When i play KT, i dont even use my bain, and still have like 3 kd
Even the tech tree one which has worse KD as i played it when i was a newbie has GOOD kd ratio
Even the 105 isnt that bad after all!
And when i play IS-2s i need to think at least twice to have somewhat good kd ratio. And to have it same as KT one…
AND STILL! they provide less tactical mobility as their stats dont make them universal as KT.
May you show the example of it?
I know that the 100mm 412B shot has it, but never have i ever had more strange ricochets than with 122mm 412D and 412B
I would certainly do opposite. Tho i would prefer the IS-6 to Leopard 1 exactly because APHE and 13 second reload.