Ki-84 real spec's

Proposal to Adjust Ki-84 Performance Based on Historical Data

The Ki-84 is well-known as a late-war Japanese Army fighter aircraft. However, its performance in War Thunder (WT) is based on inaccurate facts, resulting in an overestimation of its capabilities.

Engine Performance and Limitations

Generally, the Ki-84 is equipped with the Ha-45-21 engine. The takeoff power (which became usable as War Emergency Power (WEP) only after December 1944) was prohibited for use in aerial combat until that time. Reference

More importantly, the Ha-45 engine was limited to an output of 1,860 horsepower due to extreme increases in cylinder temperatures caused by uneven fuel mixtures. This restriction remained in place until the end of the war, meaning the Ki-84 never actually operated at the 2,000 horsepower level depicted in WT for flight or combat scenarios.

Historical Performance Data

Historical performance measurements by the Japanese Army are well-documented and can be found here: Reference. These sources are based on primary documents, and for those who can read Japanese, the original sources are cited, confirming the reliability and accuracy of the information.

The U.S. estimates of 690 km/h at 6,000 meters are based on the engine’s “intended performance,” not on actual measured data. Moreover, the engine never achieved its intended performance in practice. Japanese military aircraft speeds are recorded based on nominal output (30-minute output) because takeoff power was not used during combat operations. While there are records of aircraft like the Zero at Lae bypassing regulations, demonstrating that higher outputs were physically possible, such instances were exceptions and not reflective of standard operational procedures.

Implications for War Thunder

The use of WEP in Japanese aircraft was delayed significantly, and particularly for the Ki-84, there is no confirmed evidence that wartime emergency power was used in combat or test flights. Therefore, implementing the current performance figures in WT is questionable. Adjusting the Ki-84’s performance in the game to reflect these historical limitations would provide a more accurate representation.

Further Considerations

This proposal calls for dramatic changes to the Ki-84’s specifications, warranting thorough discussion. Additionally, similar debates should be held for the Shiden Kai (紫電改, N1K2-J), which is equipped with the same engine, to ensure consistency and historical accuracy across related aircraft.


References:

  1. Warbird Performance Archive 1
  2. Warbird Performance Archive 2
  3. Warbird Performance Archive 3
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Make reports (for each specific part that you deem to be wrong) on the community bug reporting site here:
Gaijin.net // Issues

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Thank you !

Forgot to link you the guide :)

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If a pilot’s life was in danger, he would definitely have pushed his throttle to WEP to get out of a bad situation.
This is like the 1-minute WEP time limit on early 109s - it was often ignored when the going got tough and many pilots went well beyond that time limit.

That data is from a real Ki-84 that was overhauled and tested by the US shortly after the war ended. It is not an estimate.

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I don’t think the data is from a test flight. Lets take a look at “T-2 Report on Frank I Ki-84” from late 1946:

Speed data which matches the US war time estimates.

Spoiler

Test flown for 11½ hours. Not that much really.
“hampered by repeated failures”

Spoiler

  1. Performance
    None obtained
Spoiler

Anyway in War Thunder vehicles don’t have reliability issues. With all upgrades they reach their full potential.
I think Ki-84’s full performance should be extrapolated from the real recorded performance in Japanese documents. Some estimate that to be 640-660 km/h (400-410 mph). The airframe should be more streamlined than N1K2-J with same engine, but the smaller propeller is believed to have been a limiting issue.

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…of the exhaust stacks.

11 and a half hours is more than enough to determine its top speed, and don’t forget this is a Ki-84 that was entirely overhauled in the US to ideal specs.

Given that this plane was undoubtedly running at its full 2000hp, top speed lines up perfectly with earlier japanese tests with a de-rated engine.

Yet they clearly flew it: they compared its handling and general flight behavior to the Model 52 Zero, provided information on equipment failures and small issues, and noted the relatively light control forces.

Somehow not collecting any performance data during those almost 12 hours of flying is simply unbelievable to me.

If you take the earlier japanese tests with the de-rated engine and correct them for the Ha-45-21’s maximum output in WEP, we get its current performance (within a few %).

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Nooo man dont make the bug report leave my beloved Ki-84 alone 😞

On a more serious note the game presents a lot of vehicles in their optimal performance not their historical one, a very big example is steel quality in armor and shells differs greatly between nations and in different time periods but in the game they are all treated the same

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Something similar, but even more messed happened with the captured Ki-61. At first Americans flew it for just few hours, yet they actually recorded some high speeds on low altitude. However into TAIC they wrote down slightly lower speeds for those low altitudes. At that point they also had Japanese papers available, though TAIC values differ from those as well. Later the plane was rebuild and test flow to get handling and some comparative data out, but again no top speeds were recorded.

That’s likely close to what TAIC did: Engine power only.

There are various clues about the propeller being to poor to make use of the increased power. One of those is the climb rate compared to N1K2-J: Despite being lighter, Ki-84 still didn’t have an advantage. There are bunch of other which I can’t remember. Some guy made a very long technical video about it years ago. Honestly I’m too tired of aircraft performance stuff to bother more.

Would be nice to find that TAIC summary No. 22, since it apparently has the most detailed description of Ki-84’s armor. Should be double headplate like late Ki-43s had. NDL has only the cover page.

Spoiler

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The performance of Japanese fighter aircraft, as evaluated by the U.S. military, was primarily calculated based on engine performance curves obtained from spies or captured documents, along with zero-lift drag coefficients, wing area, aspect ratio, and other factors, rather than being measured directly. The issue is that these estimated values were based on ideal planned figures that could not actually be achieved. The Japanese military never operated the Ha-45 (Homare) engine at 2000 PS, and even with operational restrictions in place, various issues persisted in its use.

I intend to propose the following:

  1. The Ki-84 Ko (甲型) and Otsu (乙型) were mass-produced aircraft in history and should be equipped with the Ha-45-12 engine. The 100% power setting should be operable for 30 minutes, with a maximum output of 1680 PS at 2300 m (1st gear, full throttle) and 1440 PS at 6100 m (2nd gear, full throttle), at 2900 RPM + 250 mmHg.

  2. WEP (War Emergency Power) was not usable on the real aircraft, but since disabling it entirely would be too restrictive, I suggest making it available with an estimated output of 1850 PS at 1800 m and 1610 PS at 6100 m, at 2900 RPM + 400 mmHg.

  3. The Ki-84 Hei (丙型) was never deployed in combat, so I believe its performance can remain as it is, even if it is somewhat overpowered.

This image is my calculation based on real measurements. Cd0 ≒ 0.0252
Ha45-21 is same as Ha45_12 WEP.

KI84_ingame

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Should be around 630 kmh instead if in game s 680.