The SPS-65(V) has no MAW either, one would have to look at the ASPS suite with the PAWS family of sensors, or the EL/M-2160
Official SPS-65(V)5 Brochure
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You’re right, but in fact, the suite that Elbit offers with the SPS-65 is called ALL-in-SMALL, which does have the PAWS system integrated.
My gosh that 2 seater variant is absolutely beautiful. I wish they would put that in the game. I love the Kfir C.10. Great aircraft.
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True, however the All-In-Small suite is yet another thing tbh
The TC.10 is absolutely beautiful, it’s actually the aircraft that allowed me to report the accuracy of the Kfir C.10’s artificial horizon
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It depends. It’s not a single system. SPS45V6 operates with Emerald, which makes it similar to the L150 Pastel. If you include Emerald, it may improve the RWR’s detection rate and the number of signals it can detect, as well as covering a larger area.
This is all very good, but none of it can come to the game. If it did come to the game the Kfir would still be outclassed as other aircraft would have ECM. I mean if we go by which aircraft have ECM, the C.10 would only be a little better than other aircraft at 13.3 and still far behind in things that matter.
As for the RWR, yes 360 degree coverage and more detection rate would be good, but at the same time that only really matters when playing BVR or longer range engagements (of which the C.10 can’t even think about doing with only 4x Derby-SR).
I think right now the most realistic addition would be Derby-ER (to all Israeli aircraft) which would give long range capability. The better RWR would complement that well.
As for ECM we just have to wait until everyone gets it
Exactly, my friend. We hope it won’t take long, as it was already being tested at the “Nuclear Thunder” event. That’s why I started to question whether the Kfir will receive ECM, since the RWR it has incorrectly needs to be updated to the SPS-45, which is the suite that the Colombian Air Force confirms.
We agree as well.
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“Realistic addition” that isn’t used by Israeli Air Force except short test run on F-16s.
Derby ER is major upgrade over regular Derby to the point it makes all current missiles look outdated (repeat of Python 4 vs 9M/R73), it still has all the same flaws that make BVR with AMRAAMs/R-77-1 non viable - ease of decoying the missile. Even “would-be” rearming of F-15I with 8x Derby ER will result in underdog in SPAMRAAM + iron dome meta. Hypothetical F-15IA, with AESA and 12 (or more with AMBER racks) missiles on board, would become “viable” not because Derbys, but because sheer missile quantity, though missiles themselves would be nice upgrade too.
If anything, Derby ER would become the best short to medium range ARH, when you spend both pulses back to back and missile achieves highest speeds possible.
Bro, regarding this, it’s not true that Israeli planes can’t use their own missiles developed by their local industry (in fact, that’s always sounded contradictory to me). Just because you don’t see frequent images of them doesn’t mean they can’t use them.
It is inevitable that these missiles will be added in the near future; the I-Derby-ER missile, along with double-booster missiles and other ones, will be introduced in all nations (hopefully soon). Here we are talking about how, in the case of the Colombian Kfir C.10, it could justify its increased Br (in addition to being a historical armament of the Kfir).
It is indeed a medium-to-long-range missile, but its 100 km range can be matched by current missiles (such as the AIM-120 C/D, R-77-1, PL-12 A, etc.). It will be an excellent missile, but I think calling it the best is a bit of an exaggeration.
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So far Gaijin is content with keeping domestic missiles off Israeli airforce except early F-16s, as they keep proving they run AMRAAM on most photoshoots. Otherwise “can be used” opens one massive can of worms, of which Israel doesn’t benefit from - US made aviation is not exactly compatible with MICA/Meteors/anything else than US and ISR made ordnance, but Derbys can be integrated with almost anything. So 12x Derby ER on Su-30SM2, given Indian Flankers already run those is possible.
I somehow doubt Derby ER would keep up with “next gen” medium to long range missiles like Meteor, AIM-260, PL-15 or R-77M, bringing Israel back to square Python one - too good to match current gen of missiles, too bad to keep up with next generation. PL-15 in particular can be nasty, benefiting from dual pulse while bringing much more propellant in its large and heavier frame
You’re not aware how BIG of an improvement is dual pulse compared to 120D or R-77-1 is, not only in “max range” department, but more importantly, velocity at impact. Long range AMRAAM and R-77-1 shots can be easily bled of energy without resorting to going cold, with dual pulse, it becomes whole lot riskier.
Post-change Derby became surprisingly close to 120A/B AMRAAMs as far as “BVR” goes, only thing holding it back is battery time. C5/D AMRAAMs are very modest flight model upgrade for BVR, all “range improvements” come from extending battery time, which requires godlike launch conditions and non evading targets to capitalize on in first place. Only to crash into “my radar doesn’t see anything that far” wall.
With Kfir in particular, you’re facing issue of only 4 pylons, replacing missiles with better ones will ironically make jet only worse - upcoming BR change of it getting moved up to 13.3 already puts it within Golden Eggle/Superhorny/Su30SM blast radius carrying triple the missile count, happily spent on iron doming any incoming missiles from angy dorito.
So, since Gaijin doesn’t add Israeli-made weaponry to Israeli aircraft, does that mean they can’t use it? I don’t understand your logic regarding the Su-30SM, but you must have a strong argument.
As always, you somehow create a debate where there isn’t one: The I-Derby-ER is a medium-to-long-range missile; I never said it could compete against missiles categorized as very long-range (like the ones you mention for no reason). That’s all.
Yes, I am aware of this, but what does it have to do with the topic of this thread?
I’m going to teach you something that might be very difficult for you to grasp, but it’s true: All vehicles in the game have roles in matches, and if we’re talking about planes, having a lot of missiles doesn’t mean that’s the best. The role of the Kfir (and I can say this with authority) is support; playing the Kfir C.10 with the absurd iron dome tactic is like trying to use an interceptor in a DF. It makes no sense to say that an aircraft should not have its historical armament because it will face aircraft with many missiles, unless all you know how to do is launch missiles.
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Gaijin is extremely picky about “can be used” armament to the point only standard they follow is double standard. Indian Su-30MKI is example of almost-done copypaste premium for UK tech tree that gets to differentiate itself with different missiles. 13.7, maybe 14.0 when armed with regular Derbys in number of 10 + two IR missiles at wingtips. Likely won’t get Derby ER for the same reason Mig 21 Bison didn’t get R-77, Gaijin vision of balans and leaving room for future event vehicle that conveniently solves this “issue”.
Every jet can act as moral support, heck, Su-30SM2, F-15C GE and Superhorny are absolute monsters of a “supporting” jets that avoids short to medium range engagements while causing panic in half the enemy team forcing missile crossfires. However when “support” is only thing Kfir can do, and even then it needs to be extremely picky about engagements due to missile count, while everyone else can just send it, then this dorito becomes failure of a fighter jet as far as WT ARB goes.
Just because you don’t consent to Iron Dome gaming doesn’t mean others have the same stance, if anything everyone who have ESA radar capable of reliably tracking missiles and they have missiles to spare will happily abuse your inability to exert pressure.
Kfir C10 already goes up in BR without any new armament options, as Gaijin decided it is overperforming for its BR. It getting “historical” Derby ER would at very least warrant further increase in BR, which will make aircraft further miserable to fly against higher competition.
Most of current US top tier aviation is lacking AIM-9X despite being “historical” and US having clear vulnerability in short range engagements. And yet Gaijin is withholding it, until everyone else get their equivalents. Same story likely will repeat with Derby ER, entering the chat with next generation of ARH missiles. Kfir is still highly unlikely to get them later on, if anything you could expect new Colombian dorito solving this issue for you.
Well it was fun while it lasted at 13.0, im sure it’ll still be alright at 13.3 but man x4 missiles facing Su-30SM and MKM, F-15GE, F/A-18E, Eurofighters, J-10C, and JAS39E really does not sound like a good time.
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This is definitely not true. That’s why they´re had to constantly correct themself by adding historical weaponry to the aircraft (didn’t you hear about the Spice 1000/2000/250 bomb issue?) Many other nations aircraft used them, but not the Israeli planes themselves, so no, I don’t believe you.
I’ve got you, you’re talking about things you don’t even know. The Kfir C.10 is a good vehicle; it’s not about what a jet can do, but about knowing how to do it:
And returning to the main topic, we are referring precisely to the fact that the powerful Colombian Kfir C.10 Blk 60 will be increased in its Br (RB). without receiving a reasonable justification (as will happen with the F-14A IRIAF). One justification I propose is that the Kfir be given its historical avionics (SPS-45(V)5 RWR and the DATALINK system). In the future, we hope it will also be given its historical armament, but that’s another matter.
So Panocek, if you have no more arguments that don’t just belittle a vehicle or aren’t truly constructive, I greatly appreciate your attempt to discredit an aircraft that will clearly level up, not because it’s precisely what you mistakenly claim.
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For that reason, I ask you to support our suggestion that Gaijin add a reasonable justification that allows the Kfir to compete in those leagues: Better armament (even if it’s only 4) and better avionics (modern RWR and Datalink) will not only make the Kfir C.10 a little more capable, but will also be more realistic.
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As far as i have looked, KfirC10 doesnt have a jammer to Perform ECM, It can only carry out ESM/ELINT
It does have a external jamming pod, but that will take up 1 of the already low 4 hardpoints
As I covered before, it does seem to have the SPJ-20 antennas, this and the integration of the EL/L-8222 pod
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The Kfir does have jammers for performing ECM. 
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yeah i missed that one mb
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