I highly encourage everyone to keep the research ongoing, to present further evidence in the bug-reports I am planning on doing this week.
3 Likes
Greetings Kfir enjoyers, I have great news, I’ve done the bug-reports, for now the only one that seems to be missing are the Kfir C.2/C.7 EEGS ones.
Here is a list of bug-reports I’ve done so far:
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing MFD Modes (Open)
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Incomplete Artificial Horizon (Accepted)
- Kfir C.7 Missing MFD Modes (Open)
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Incorrect Cockpit Lighting Color (Open)
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing HUD Information (Open)
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing EEGS Gun Lead (Open)
Please show them some love (yes I’m begging), it took me a lot of time to report them, as the process of not just writing the report, but actually getting the research components takes a lot of time, and even so, I still try to find as many extra sources as I can in order to keep the reports as air-tight as possible.
For now, the only pending reports I have are:
- Kfir C.2/C.7 EEGS and the aircraft gun lead
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Individual MFD Modes
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Data Link
- ELTA EL/M-2052 Missing Sea Radar Modes
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing Anti-Glare Coating on HUD
[Note: this last report about the anti-glare coating is still in research stage, I’ve confirmed the Kfir CE / C.10 / 2000 has the anti-glare coating through images published, however I have not proven if this holds true for the Kfir C.10 Block 60 despite having the same HUD]
Frontal view of an Ecuadorian Kfir CE, notice the green tonality visible on the HUD.
2 Likes
I’ve got news, unfortunately, the Kfir C.10 Block 60 doesn’t seem to have any sort of anti-glare HUD coating in comparison to the Kfir CE (C.10)
Kfir C.10 Block 60 - Notice that despite the photo being taken at an angle, there seems to be no green tonality or hints of an anti-glare coating on the HUD.
Kfir C.10 Block 60 - Front aspect photo, notice the lack of any coating on the HUD in comparison to the Ecuadorian variant.
Kfir CE - The angle of the picture taken shows the anti-glare coating present on the HUD perfectly…
1 Like
Greetings once again Kfir enjoyers, I’ve made new reports regarding the Kfir C.10 Block 60 and Kfir C.2/C.7
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing HUD MFD Mode
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing Tactical Situation Display
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing Weapons Inventory MFD
- Kfir C.2/C.7 Inaccurate RWR Screen
As before, please go and show them some love, I hope they can soon be accepted.
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Data Link
- Kfir C.2/C.7 Inaccurate HUD Symbology
There might be more reports done depending on the inaccuracies and missing features I may find during the reporting process.
2 Likes
I have a question,does the kfir canard count as a c model kfir?
2 Likes
Correct, I forgot to add it to the title.
It counts as it got those little canards on the fuselage and nose (fun fact: they’re removable iirc)
Edit: nevermind, past me did add it to the title
1 Like
Greetings everyone, I have good news and bad news.
The good news are that a lot of the planned reports have been made and reported by now, leaving it up to Gaijin’s chances to get them accepted or even a simple response from part of the bug-reporting managers.
The bad news is that there are still reports missing to file, I’ve covered a few so far, though I am still missing the crucial ones:
Here are the current reports that have been made:
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing MFD Modes
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Incomplete Artificial Horizon
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing EEGS Gun Lead
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing HUD Information
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing HUD MFD Mode
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Incorrect Cockpit Lighting Color
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Missing Tactical Situation Display MFD
- Kfir C.7 Missing MFD Modes
- Kfir C.2/C.7 Inaccurate RWR Screen
Another two reports have been made in favor of Israeli avionics, in this case, these apply to the DASH III and the Advanced Threat Display (ATD) in the F-16I Sufa:
- DASH III HMD Missing Designated Ground Target Symbology
- F-16I Sufa Cockpit RWR Showing Contacts as “U” (Unknown) [Pure bug-report]
- F-16I RWR MFD showing all contacts as “U” [Inaccuracy Report with sources]
Lastly, once again, these are the missing reports in regard to the Kfir series of aircraft:
- Kfir C.10 Block 60 Data Link
- Kfir C.2/C.7 Inaccurate HUD Symbology
- Kfir C.2/C.7 Missing EEGS gun lead
I will definitely be taking my time publishing these reports, since I’ve got to continue making progress in my major.
Thank you for reading, further progress will be provided, just as a small spoiler of what will likely be reported in a bit.
[Author’s Note: I somehow have better scores in Vector Calculus (58/100) than in General Chemistry (42/100), I would find it hilarious if taking the courses for a second time were cheap. I genuinely wonder how…]
3 Likes
As well as the previous post made before, I would like to report something pretty quickly.
THE KFIR C.10 BLOCK 60’S ELECTRONICS ARE NOT UNIQUE TO ITSELF
Now, you might have guessed or arrived to this conclusion due to common manufacturer behavior, as upgrade packages for aircraft and other suites are usually provided to other series of compatible or requested aircraft depending on the manufacturer or the country of request origin.
This is likely a good hypothesis to start with, however hard to prove if you lack the evidence, HOWEVER, we can definitely see the Kfir C.10 Block 60’s electronics upgrades in use at another IAI project:
The F/A-259
I do not wish to delve in to the history of this specific variant of the L-159, though to provide enough context, the F/A-259 was an IAI development project first presented at Fanborough International Airshow 2018, providing a modernized strike aircraft dedicated to Counterinsurgency and multi-role demands of global air forces according to the media coverage.
Part of these modernizations provided are the overhauled cockpit and sensors, boasting two primary full-color MFD’s, the ELTA EL/M-2052 or EL/M-2032 radar, NVG, HMD and many more capabilities.
Upon a closer look, one may notice that these upgrades are the same ones done to the Kfir C.10 Block 60, this is also provided by the following article.
F/A-259 Cockpit, from a straight glance one may notice the similarities between this aircraft project and the Kfir C.10 Block 60 in terms of avionics .
F/A-259 Cockpit, notice the same radar and Tactical Situation Display modes as those seen in the Kfir C.10 Block 60, as well as the same UFC.
F/A-259 Cockpit, the only noticeable difference is on the artificial horizon MFD, which looks different in comparison to the Kfir C.10 Block 60, otherwise, the main MFD’s are the same.
F/A-259 Cockpit, notice the Weapons Inventory MFD mode provided and reported before.
F/A-259 Cockpit, a closer look into the main MFD’s, notice how it provides notation for the A/G Ground, ordinance quantity, and the mode (CCIP in this case).
F/A-259 Cockpit, notice the Tactical Situation Display in full effect, one may notice the identified Data Link targets, range in nautical miles, route, and the radar cursor on the MFD.
F/A-259 Cockpit, notice the HUD shown is an exact copy and distribution of the one seen before in the IAI simulators as well as the Colombian Aerospace Force footage.
It is undeniable that these are the same avionics upgrades as those provided to the Kfir C.10 Block 60. Once again, we have unearthed another piece towards the development of the Kfir series of aircraft.
Sources
The following sources have been utilized to prove my claims
- [Airforce Technology] - F/A-259 Striker Light Attack Aircraft
- [European Defence Review On-line] - Aero Vodochody and IAI introduce the F/A-259 Striker
- [Defensa.com] - Aero Vodochody e IAI lanzan el cazabombardero multirrol F/A-259 “Striker”
- [Czech Air Force] - L-259 pro Ukrajinu: reálný projekt, nebo jen další „Český sen“?
- [Zona Militar] - Aero Vodochody revela el avión de ataque ligero F/A-259 y anuncia nuevas ventas para el L-39NG
- Cockpit Picture on X (formerly Twitter) provided by “Tim Robinson”
- [defenseupdate] - Farnborough 2018 VideoReport
3 Likes
1+
1 Like
did the c10 not recieve a new fly by wire?
because its dampening sas mode for simulator is garbage. same with auto leveling
I am not exactly sure about it, however it seems it is mostly a problem in the entirety of the Kfir series, the SAS modes are pure dogshit for whatever reason.
But I don’t think it’s received it in-game, if anything it handles the same as the Kfir C.7, and I haven’t really looked into the historical accuracy of this claim.
Though I’m 60% sure it did have it.
1 Like
I have an answer.
The Kfir C.10 likely does not have fly-by-wire.
I was looking through documents and found this document which seems to refer to the hydraulics system of the Kfir aircraft, and also found this exact excerpt:
"… la presión hidráulica del sistema se distribuye hacia los componentes de la siguiente manera.
Sistema número 1: provee presión hidráulica a los actuadores de las superficies de control, al sistema de preservo, al tren de aterrizaje, frenos, aerófrenos y los sistemas de sensación artificial (DASHPOT y OSCAR)"
Sistema número 2: suministra presión hidráulica a los actuadores de las superficies de control, sistema de preservo, a los compensadores y al sistema de extensión de emergencia del tren de aterrizaje.
Sistema de emergencia: suministra presión hidráulica a los actuadores de las superficies de control, sistema de preservo y las unidades de sistema artificial DASHPOT y OSCAR, a través de las líneas de presión del Sistema No 1 cuando en este hay una caída de presión. "
They also provided images from the official Kfir COA manual:
Translation to English:
… the hydraulic pressure of the system is distributed to the components in the following manner.
System number 1: provides hydraulic pressure to the control surfaces actuators, preserve system, the landing gear, brakes, air-brakes, and the artificial sensation systems (DASHPOT and OSCAR)
System number 2: administers hydraulic pressure to control surfaces actuators, preserve systems, compensators, and the emergency landing gear system.
Emergency system: administers hydraulic pressure to the control surfaces actuators, preserve systems and the units of the DASHPOT and OSCAR artificial systems through the System No 1 lines whenever a pressure drop is detected.
As well as the following news coverage of the Kfir modernization project over at Palanquero Air Force Base, in which a Colombian Air Force pilot part of the project states:
“La línea de ensamblaje inicialmente empieza al fondo del hangar con una limpieza total con todo lo que tiene que ver en la aeronave, todas las líneas de hidráulico, línea de combustible, todos los arneses eléctricos salen completamente, y la línea de producción viene a unos refuerzos estructurales, viene a una adecuación específica en la nariz para poder tener recepción de la nueva nariz del C.10 con el radar, y obviamente la cabina interiormente cambia por las nuevas pantallas líquidas LCD, un nuevo HUD, un nuevo acelerador, un nuevo stick, y prácticamente el nuevo sistema completamente de navegación y entrega de armas”
Translation to English:
“The assembly line initially begins at the back of the hangar, with a total cleaning of everything related to the aircraft, all the hydraulic lines, fuel lines, all the electrical harnesses come out completely, then the production line moves to structural reinforcements, then it moves to a specific integration on the nose to receive the new nose of the C.10 with the radar, obviously the cockpit inside changes completely due to the new liquid LCD screens, a new HUD, a new throttle, a new stick, and practically the new and complete navigation and weapons delivery system”
Another news coverage at Palanquero Air Force Base provided by “Caracol News” states the following:
“El escuadrón Kfir de la Fuerza Aérea Colombiana fue sometido a reingeniería total. Durante 24 meses de intenso trabajo resolvieron los defectos de los motores, se renovó su aviónica y se instaló en cada una de las aeronaves 3 poderosos sistemas de armas, radares y guerra electrónica que garantizan más posibilidades de eliminar blancos enemigos”
Translation to English:
“The Kfir Squadron of the Colombian Air Force was subjected to total re-engineering. For 24 months of intensive work they solved the engine defects, renewed the avionics and installed 3 new powerful armament, radar, and electronic warfare systems into every aircraft, which guarantee more possibilities to eliminate enemy targets”
So far none of these news coverage and the hydraulics report do not point towards a fly-by-wire integration on the Kfir C.10, which would line up with the C.10 package being a partial upgrade rather than a total overhaul, therefore, still keeping the hydraulic controls on the surfaces of the aircraft
2 Likes
Now, I do have my doubts in regards to this conclusion, mainly because of a few things on my mind:
- Media coverage is often unreliable
- Air Force personnel are not entitled to give the totality of the work executed upon a platform
- The Kfir COA manual pictures provided seem to be from the COA pre-C.10-B60 upgrade
- The document providing the information seems weirdly formatted, even for an academic assignment
These inconsistencies withing the material provided, and the lack of further evidence makes me think that the conclusion arrived is likely to be confirmed rather than a fact. Is it with high likelihood the Kfir C.10 still uses hydraulic controls? Yes. Can I prove it? I am not sure.
Going to post some bug reports for Kfir C.1…
2 Likes
Holy shit that’s an incredible finding.
Would you mind sharing the document?
2 Likes
wtf is f-21
F-21 is the designation for the Kfir Canard in the US Navy.
2 Likes
Never knew us used kfirs… and the navy? Wowza
Yeah, the US operated the C.2 and C.1 as part of their aggressors teams, they were pretty useful simulating high accelerating aircraft.
1 Like
is that the kfir canard?