I am really sick of skilless players just hugging the deck and slinging IRCCM missiles just because they can. I can’t do much when the best side of my aircraft is radar missiles and the best IR missile i got is a rear-aspect FOX-2. Multipathing became so easy since they introduced radar altitude and now top tier consist nothing in the name of BVR. Instead of a magic shield protecting them, players should rely on their skill and positioning or dont play top tier at all. Because this is nothing but unrealistic and unfun.
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no lol
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*yes lol
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Yep ,MP is just being exploited still and it creates huge imbalance.
Encountered a J-10 in Sim whilst I was flying the Tornado F3 Late. My AMRAAM was defeated by him flying low and in a straight line. I cant run away, I can win the merge. I can only die in that situation.
MP should be removed or lowered further. Especially in Sim.
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+1
Multipath needs to be reduced further. There should not be a magical force field around someone just because he is flying below 40m lol. Let alone flying in a straight line. Neigh time people learned proper FOX3 jousting. Notch + chaff should also be a dice roll and not a get out of jail free card to defeat missiles 100 % of the time. I watched the Twitch tournament yesterday and honestly it was ridiculous what was happening.
We should also not be able to see missiles smaller than a cruise missile on radar, let alone be able to lock that missile with radar. It´s unrealistic and just adds so much clutter into the radar scope, making it impossible to discern what is a plane and what is a missile at times.
A few months ago (around the F-14 event) for a brief moment, Gaijin neutered chaff and made radar to ignore ordnance (missiles / bombs). Best week of top tier in a long time.
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Its crazy how often I lose track on a plane and my missile (Radar or IR) goes for the enemy missile. Must have MASSIVE rcs.
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Does it vary missile to missile irl?
If it does, why can’t gaijin make MP height a missile specific thing instead of having a one size fits all approach?
For early missiles. Yes. But by the time of things like Skyflash and Aim-7E (I think) MP basically doesnt exist and things like the prox fuse triggering from being too close to the ground become the limiting factor for low alt.
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It is not because it is an early SARH, but rather depends on whether it has a inverse monopulse seeker.
IRL, Missiles such as AIM-7M, Skyflash, R-24R, etc. were able to hit targets hugging low altitude ignoring MP.
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Yes, I know, but typically the “early” ones didnt have the inverse monopulse seeker, whilst all the later ones did specifically to counter multipathing.
Basically death spiral meta 💀
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They can. They actually wrote new code specifically to be able to tune MP on a per-missile basis a few days before they lowered MP height, however when it came to lowering it, they did so for all missiles anyways… Strange approach.
Although ideally I’d probably want to see another slight reduction in MP, I think the chaff is more of an issue than MP is right now, and if I were to see MP change today, I’d like for it to be on a per-missile basis which they can do now with that new code.
To be clear regarding the chaff. I want chaff to stay as powerful as it is in the notch, because unlike MP, notching is an evasive manoeuvre that puts you on the defensive / at a disadvantage and provides some standoff capability to the firing jet. However the way Fox 3’s act around chaff at lower speeds, when not even close to a notch, and the way they lock onto the chaff, instead of going into IOG makes them almost useless in dogfights and they essentially become paperweight at range when going up against someone that knows how to use the chaff, almost regardless of your energy advantage.
Anyways MP reduction did achieve one thing that we set out to do, it did make it harder/more inconsistent to MP over uneven terrain, so for that I’m pretty happy and I take that as a win, even if all other aspects are not perfect right now. We also have to consider some people want it to be braindead easy to MP/defeat missiles to compensate for various balance-issues or they just like that gameplay more (Doesn’t mean I think that gameplay is the right direction for top-tier). So right now I think is a pretty good middle-ground, however I hope in the future we see some tuning on a per-missile basis for MP and hopefully some better chaff rejection for future modern missiles
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I agree, the fact that by simply flying low you become automatically invulnerable to radar missiles feels quite bs. I could understand it in earlier radar missiles, but the fact that missiles like the AIM-7M are just a copy of the 7F even though it should ignore the MP is quite annoying. Let apart firing 8 missiles and seeing how the terrain does the job. The terrain should help you by making the missile crash into a mountain, nothing else.
I guess it’s about time to get stock chaff and remove the MP, at least in the highest BRs, and add tutorials on how to fly defensively against both IR and radar missiles.
What annoys me even more is that then people say “no, it’s a game, it’s about balance”, and I’m like “where does it say balanced military vehicle game?”, why should MP stay for balance purposes, but then the same excuse would be invalid for balancing other stuff, such as missiles having different performances or slower planes fighting Mach 2+ jets (I’m not against this, I’m just mentioning the excuse they use but which they dislike if used against them).
I really hope Gaijin decides to remove the MP soon, maybe they could add ECM to have more defenses against missiles apart from chaff later on, or just remove it and make people learn how actual aerial combat is supposed to be
Imagine trying to play an aircraft such as a tornado, F-111F, Yak-141, late F4s, and MiG 23s where you dont have a good turning circle and just lose all your energy if you do make that turn. Then factor in the multiple AHMs coming at you. Some aircraft are lucky to defend one missle at most.
Take away multipathing and you effectively make some aircraft unplayable.
Dont like people hugging the deck? Climb out of their range and chose the best engagement time.
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So instead of following the ground and dodging trees, which apparently takes no skill, you want everyone to notch (turn left, wait a bit, turn back towards enemy) chaff (spam one button a bit) and go cold(run away)?
Said skill and positioning can also be used to defeat IR missiles…
yeah, the same way ground players at 4.0 point their gun at the target (move the mouse), fire (press a button), and then drive away (press another, mabye two buttons).
see, i too can make perfectly fine things seem unnuanced and stupid by deliberately omitting their nuances and intricacies. :)
like, i personally detest notching as a strategy and think it really needs to be less used at top tier (mostly because it gets the people using it killed), but it is profoundly stupid to think it’s as easy as “turn left, wait a bit, turn back towards enemy”.
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Notching is literally putting the radar ping on the side of your rwr and waiting there is zero nuance beyond that, maybe dive a bit if you feel like it. Same with “going cold” which is literally just running away. The other method that works for longer range shots is fly to one side a bit and then turn to the other side so the missile runs out of energy. You could train a goldfish to do any of these things in an afternoon.
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If enemy is far above you or you are too low – no
Because MP doesn’t work at ~0-45 approach angle at all and 60 meters is low enough to be just a little bit above trees
Multipath reduction must be implemented if WT intends to implement newer infrared missiles in the future.
Even now, multipath and notching make it very easy to avoid radar-guided missiles, and they can be easily approached.
In this situation, the next generation of powerful infrared missiles are difficult to implement because they can easily kill the enemy.
However, with realistic changes to multipath and notching resistance, radar missiles make easy approaches difficult.
As a result, it would be possible to implement a very powerful infrared missile that shoots down the enemy as a reward for the hard work of approaching through terrain and radar blind spots.
In short, the implementation of powerful infrared missiles requires a set of powerful radar missiles, and one of the requirements for powerful radar missiles is that they must be impervious to the effects of multipath.