Just make the Conqueror playable! Not even good, just playable!

[O_HOgameplay]

I always love this “historical” whining.

Yes dude, because replacing a blown off gun barrel in 15s without them getting out of the tank is realistic, bringing back to life someone in 20s that had his head blown off by a 120mm shell is so realistic.

This game is anything BUT realistic.

Making a tank playable is more important than it being “realistic”.

Why aren’t you b***hing on the forum because the Sturmtiger does not have 5 minute reload? Or that it essentially has a laser rangefinder?
Is that realistic? I don’t think so.

@EL337GH0ST

Conqueror has pretty good armor, especially turret armor, with the experimental armor package fitted it is almost immune to 90 mm HEAT, 105 mm early APDS and in some areas even immune to 400 mm HEAT.

No.
The experimental package even lowers the survivability. Why?
because if a HEAT shell hits directly over the driver’s hatch, the package makes it detonate closer to the driver’s hatch, making it more likely to overpressure the 17mm cast hatch door.
The package addon armor also falls of quickly, so it is not a permanent thing.
The gunner’s optic is 50mm cast, so even SPAAs will pen it from almost a km, and since most of the uses SAP, they just 1hit the entire turret crew.
The gun mantlet is also very weak.
And then there are a few more 17mm thick cast hatches on the turret, as well as a 30mm cast plate over the gun breech, making it extremely easy to overpressure with anything that has explosive filler (except APHE).
Then the hull is extremely weak okay, hulldown tank, but you cant just sit all battle in hulldown most of the time).

@EL337GH0ST

Conqueror already has a realistic rate of fire of 4 RPM, and that shouldn’t change. The M103, despite having two loaders, has the same slow reload rate, even though its IRL minimum rate of fire was 5 RPM, so the Conqueror absolutely shouldn’t get a reload buff, rather, the equivalent tank (M103), should.

STURMTIGER?! Hallo?!
Not just that, but a lot more tanks just have waaay faster reload than they should have. Why aren’t you whining about them as well?

@EL337GH0ST

What should change is that they should buff the damage its APDS does immensely, on the Chieftain level of damage (which is pretty good).

Yes, but they will not. The Chieftain APDS is completly different, it uses T.Alloy, not T.carbide.

@EL337GH0ST

They should also remove its BS ahistorical stabilizer, the thing had the complete opposite of a stabilizer - it couldn’t fire at all when moving more than 2 mph as the gun completely locked up. It is unfair that it gets a stabilizer, but the M103 and equivalents don’t, when they were actually capable of shooting on the move (albeit ineffectively).

Yeah, make the Conqueror even more unplayable!
On the other hand, the M103 is just better in every way.
It does not have a ready rack ->Can fire all it’s ammo without getting longer reload.
It does not have those shitty 17mm hatches, and the weakest part is 38mm on top ->harder to overpressure (for example, soviet 122mm HE can’t pen it, while it can pen the Conqueror)
Overall better armor
10 tons lighter with the same engine HP
Gets AP, HEAT, and HE, all of them are better than the shit APDS, and HESH on the Conqueror.
Has a .50 cal

[CodeNameColdWar]

@O_HOgameplay

The issue is, that even 90mm HEAT will trigger the OP if it detonates near a hatch. There were at least 3 times when i got killed by an AML-90 (or something similar to that) just because it hit the turret front over the driver’s hatch.
Higher calibre HEAT is even more effective.
And the HEAT shield addon armor of the turret makes it even worse, because HEAT detonates closer to the hatch.

As i said it effect every vehicles. But i get that you are confuse. Because such small explosive shouldn’t OP that which i agree.

@O_HOgameplay

It is not an armor hole. It fully pens the mantlet, and the shell explodes behind it. And since the first stage ammo charges are right under the mantlet, any AOHE will just ammorack it. Or if the shell has 200+g of TNT, then it just OPs the crew.

For armor hole i was mention about “overpressure” since that was the another reason why some heavy armor tank die from SPAA with 30-40mm guns due to “overpressure” damage.
I should have quote the post before reply.

As for mantlet . there are certain weakspot on some part. But back in the day. It use to be good as it can stop 100,122 APHE . Gaijin change it. So i’d like to see any source about it’s gun mantlet.
https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/388849-conquerors-mantlet-changed/&do=findComment&comment=7752545

@O_HOgameplay

Not really.
For APDS, any early design ones, with T.Carbide core are just out right useless, because they shatter on everything and deal next to no damage even if they pen.

On the other hand, T.Alloy APDS, like on the 105mm L7 are very good in terms of consistency, and damage.

For solidshot, the issue is that they use low calibre. While the US and French use 120, or 100mm solidshot, the brits use 83mm ones.

The 17pdr is fine up to 5.0-5.3, but after that, you have to shoot a lot of APDS, but again, it is an early one, so it sucks.

It does somewhat effect majority of them though.But if Gaijin can buff APDS damage output on 105mm
Why can’t they do for the others ? (infact they did buff solid AP shell before when france was introduce)
Also the fact that APHE already get overperfrom damage output.

[0054325 & 0054326] APHE incorrect damage zone and fragmentation power

As for solid AP damage output compare to APCR . irl US did a test on shell damage between solid AP and APCR and the test result show that APCR was sightly higher.

So in my opinion any AP , APCR , APDS should get damage output buff to compensate that as well. or nerf (fix) APHE damage output.

[XreGenerations]

You are exaggerating a little. Some of these things you state arent of big concern. I have only ever been killed through the optic sight I think once, and I have played hundreds of matches in it.

Gun Mantlet isnt “very weak”, it is at worst “weak”, but the Gun Mantlets issue is the level of consistency, parts of it fly into a 150mm shield just behind, where even huge AP rounds like the Maus can fail to pen.

There is an overpressure issue with it though where huge rounds that dont quite pen the tank still magically kill everyone for no reason.

EDIT: Also neglecting that the Conqueror has one of the best Anti-HEAT protection for a Heavy Tank in the game. Gaijin was definitely generous to add that spaced armor. Provides great protection from 90mm and smaller HEAT and decent protection against larger HEAT. That Mantlet “weakspot” still has a chance to eat rounds and its not even guaranteed to take out the breach.

To think that with a bit of extra armor on the mantlet this thing would be a hull down HEAT EATER.

[XreGenerations]

Someone on the forums once posted a table with a standard AP shot for the conqueror.

EDIT: Conqueror Apds stats found online. - Heavy Vehicles - War Thunder - Official Forum

[XreGenerations]

This is what a T-55A looks like at 2000M

[Peasant_wb]

It’s a shame we can’t rotate the turret in protection analysis, to see how it would look if the T-55 player angles his hull.

Another reason why WoT > WT /jk

https://tanks.gg/tank/t-54/model?vm=live

[O_HOgameplay]

@XreGenerations

decent protection against larger HEAT

“Decent” protection.

As i said, HE shells hitting the turret fron will just OP the driver hatch:

This happnes too if the shell explodes near any of the 3 other hatches on the turret roof.

@XreGenerations

That Mantlet “weakspot” still has a chance to eat rounds and its not even guaranteed to take out the breach.

Yeah with it’s tendency to get OPd…

@XreGenerations

Conqueror has one of the best Anti-HEAT protection for a Heavy Tank in the game

For that one shell that will tear off the addon armor…
At least you can shoot a warning shot at the enemy…

@XreGenerations

Gun Mantlet isnt “very weak”, it is at worst “weak”, but the Gun Mantlets issue is the level of consistency, parts of it fly into a 150mm shield just behind, where even huge AP rounds like the Maus can fail to pen.

There is an overpressure issue with it though where huge rounds that dont quite pen the tank still magically kill everyone for no reason.

Nope. It pens the mantlet layer, explodes behind it, and triggers OP if it has enough explosive mass (~200g tnt), or just shrapnels the ready rack charges and the tank explodes. Happened to me with a bloody Panther, and it’s awful 27g tnt equivivalent…

Btw a one shot spot against a 35mm SAP at 700m…

@XreGenerations

You are exaggerating a little. Some of these things you state arent of big concern. I have only ever been killed through the optic sight I think once, and I have played hundreds of matches in it.

Happened me at least 3 times agains the Oerlicon 35mm, and a dozen other times with larger calibre APHE.

[O_HOgameplay]

Dont use tanks.gg. it only takes the base angle without any angle modifiers.

I dont think a 37mm APCR should have over 50% chance of penning the T-34 upper plate…
This is more realistic:

[Peasant_wb]

Yes, you shouldn’t use it for Wathunder. It’s calculating effective thickness using rules from WoT, where the shell subtracts obliquity(-5°) from the target, so it’s effective thickness is always less than simple line of sight thickness. Its very unrealistic and makes sloped armour much less effective, but that’s what you get.

[O_HOgameplay]

A slight correction:

@Peasant_wb

where the shell subtracts obliquity(-5°) from the target

It is only for AP.
APCR has it set to 2, while HEAT and HE has 0.

It also only does this normalization when the initial angle is less than 70 deg, since it is the auto-bounce angle.

EDIT:

@Peasant_wb

Its very unrealistic

Not like WT is so damn realistic xd.

[XreGenerations]

Yes that is decent protection against a round that can lolpen almost everything that it sees. And I also say decent protection because that incorporates more than a one directional concept of protection. The crew are spaced out meaning that he has to pick his poison: gunner (commander override), breech (which is a diceroll shot), or loader.

Blockquote

I have played hundreds and hundreds of matches in this vehicle and I can not once recall an instance where I have been killed in that manner, thats such a niche way to kill the vehicle, maybe the person doing it deserves that kill for thinking outside the box.

I was hull down in this thing and one of those exact AMX TOA losers tossed 10 rounds into me non stop, emptied his loader and I was just a stuck fish, he ran out of his stupid auto loaded ammunition and had to crawl back in his pit giving me time to repair. I later one shot him. Lets not pretend that everyone who faces you is an expert on tank knowledge.

[O_HOgameplay]

@XreGenerations

I have played hundreds and hundreds of matches in this vehicle and I can not once recall an instance where I have been killed in that manner, thats such a niche way to kill the vehicle, maybe the person doing it deserves that kill for thinking outside the box.

As i said, sometimes even 90mm HEAT will OP it. If you can’t understand it, then visit a doctor.

@XreGenerations

I was hull down in this thing and one of those exact AMX TOA losers tossed 10 rounds into me non stop, emptied his loader and I was just a stuck fish, he ran out of his stupid auto loaded ammunition and had to crawl back in his pit giving me time to repair. I later one shot him. Lets not pretend that everyone who faces you is an expert on tank knowledge.

I used that tank as an example due to it having only a 100mm gun, and to illustrate that even that can just HE it.

[XreGenerations]

Bros mad that he isnt invulnerable to ammunition that can basically lolpen everything, and as I said earlier, the Conqueror is much better protected against HEAT than most other heavy tanks, especially 90mm and smaller.

A BMP shooting the UFP with the spaced cover will struggle to penetrate.

And you can say sometimes if you want, sometimes a M22 can kill a top tier tank, and?

I have more experience in this vehicle than anyone in this thread most likely, I will tell you, overpressure of this specific instance is extremely rare. I have never experienced it in this way. I have experienced overpressure when a massive round passes through the mantlet, and for some reason, sometimes when one actually fails to get through the breach armor.

You should look at likelyhoods, APHE to the cupola (which I havent experienced in a long time likely due to bushes), rounds passing through the breach, Lower Front plate, not a super rare instance of someone using HE when most people dont touch it, or HEAT overpressuring the crew which is probably a bug.

[O_HOgameplay]

@XreGenerations

Bros mad that he isnt invulnerable to ammunition that can basically lolpen everything

No. My issue is that this tank is shit in every meaningful way possible.
I dont want Op armor, in fact i very rarely rely on armor at all. However the tank itself forces me to rely on the non-existing armor of this pile of crap.

@XreGenerations

And you can say sometimes if you want, sometimes a M22 can kill a top tier tank, and?

I wasnt even talking about anything similar to this.

@XreGenerations

I will tell you, overpressure of this specific instance is extremely rare.

Have you seen single atoms with your eye? I bet you haven’t, so this means that atoms are very rare!
Yeah buddy that makes a lot of sense!

@XreGenerations

which I havent experienced in a long time likely due to bushes

Not even attempting fair play but okay.

@XreGenerations

HEAT overpressuring the crew which is probably a bug

HEAT means “High explosive anti tank”. You know, it has EXPLOSIVES in it. The hatch is 17mm cast, so the effective thickness is ~15mm, so somewhere around ~8-900g of TNT (I dont remember the exact value) in ANY shell will overpressure the whole tank.
90mm HEAT is due to armor hole around the mantlet, but 100-105mm HEAT and higher will just normally OP it.
If you dont understand it then again, visit a doctor.

How how often this happens?
Well, i almost exclusively use this method to deal with the Conq.
A HESH or HE(AT) to the turret roof, or to the turret front and the tank is gone.

[Jarms]

Gaijin just needs to fix APDS. It’s too inconsistent and the damage is terrible.

[O_HOgameplay]

For this tank it still would not be enough to make it playable. It needs a way faaster reload too.

[Hartsy1]

I could put up with the poor mobility, large silhouette, long reload, average armour… If for once the gun would just do some damn damage without the spall levels of a rifle round or the shell shattering like it was made of glass… I simply cannot justify playing this tank anymore when it’s gun is laughably bad for it’s size and post pen damage. With a reload that long you simply cannot afford for shell’s to shattered on stupid things like a leopards side skirt or an m26s add on armour or quite honestly anything that takes its fancy, there’s no reason for it. It’ll happen point blank to a vehicle and the muzzle energy just simply blinks out of existence… Because of the trash shell shatter mechanic that quite honestly should be removed until it actually works correctly. That’s what is affecting this vehicle the most imo.

[smeteddie]

did bro buy a conqurer with ge your supposed to hide your hull like more than 80% of brit tanks is hide hull turret invincble

[StormRyder13]

I’m sorry what? the thing dies easier than an open top. I’ve been going insane trying to spade it.

[smeteddie]

what do you mean