Should and could are two different things, gaijin is more likely to force you to research another C&P gripen C with 1 missile change. I mean this is literally par for the course woth sweden. Viggen, gripen i mean we’ve done it so many times that its not surprising.
Only realiatic way they buff the Gripen C and not give us another C&P gripen or you know another 400k+ rp sink is if we get Danish or Norwegian F16AM’s to replace the missing vehicle the Gripen C will lose.
MK3 radar and targeting pod are the only real differences in game for MS18 as we don’t have EW, datalink or Air to Air refueling right now.
However when datalink is added the MS18 and later models (might be earlier as well but idk) are capable of using the radar as a passive sensor and couple that with all the planes in the group of 4 you can get accurate targeting info that you can fire on without transmitting your own position which would be entirely broken in game haha. You also get increased range with the radars transmitting as well since the 4 radars work together in order to minimise the effect of jamming and such.
For the MS19 the up to 8 hour sorties might be the “upgraded engine” I’ve heard about with it being more fuel efficient but still the same thrust, but I still have not found anyting real regarding that. Other than that the NVG and IRIS-T are the only differences that matter in game as the more improved EWS39 + TIDLS do not currently have a place in game.
MS20 should also have the MK4 radar so up to just under 300km detection range, even better EW suite and datalink, and what you already mentioned as I did in a previous post as well.
Right now we basically have a MS17 (I guess) Gripen C with A2G weapons and targeting camera from MS18 and MS20. A right old mess haha.
Tbf past 10.3 what swedish jet isnt some made up amalgamation of inaccuracies and held together by whatever 2 second wiki answer gaijin could find considering their care for swedish aircraft goes about as far as reading what the subreddit thinks is correct.
What do you mean with C&P Gripen?
And as I have stated sometime earlier is that there could definetly be 3 different JAS 39C versions in game due to their capabilities being so different.
1st: MS18 version (basically what we have now but with an improved radar and without JDAM’s and GBU-39).
2nd: MS20 version with IRIS-T and Meteor and all the A2G stuff we have now + GBU-49 as well.
3rd: MS21 version which I think would be close to the performance of the 39E’s avionics but with fewer hardpoints as it is still a 39C airframe and slightly less effective EW suite.
The differences in these 3 variations are very large so they could definetly be in very different BR’s.
The MS21 variant however I could see fit to be foldered in under the MS20 when the 39E comes along.
yeah that is true, many planes are thrown together very strangely with missing capabilites and armaments
To gaijin the only change needed to warrant a new vehicle is a missile, additionally i have no interest in playing a gripen C with only the missile being different because thats how gaijin works. Actually thinking they’d care even the slightest amount is very optimistic. Regardless knowing how gaijin handles swedish aircraft im against most nearly identical C&P additions. Dont even get me started on the Gripen A and the abomination its supposed to be. Or the current C model. Unless they plan on foldering these “new” gripens id rather not see them added.
Additionally goind forward more hard points will be something that will hold the plane back, especially with the current C’s engine it will be held back. I really dont have interest in playing ACE combat at top tier with with 6 missiles for the most part but i digress, thats not really that bad for me. My only gripe will be getting 400k side grades that wont be that much better than what we currently have. A radar being the only major change just isnt special imo and doesn’t warrent another eventual 500k rp grind when gaijin has yet to prove they give even a single care about the swedish air tree.
So far there track record is ground is the love child and air is the forgotten step child lol.
Does C&P mean Copy and Paste?
MS18 and MS20 have the same poweroutput but the “MS21” has an upgraded as GKN Aerospace (prevously Volvo Flygmotorer) has gotten orders from FMV to upgrade the RM12 engine for the existing 39C fleet.
If we get all three of these varians or even just the MS20 then the one 39C we have right now would get slightly worse in A2G capabilities but the jump up to the MS 20 would be massive in both A2A/A2G armaments and in the radar, in no way a side grade mate. The performance jump would be even bigger if they add EW/Datalink.
The MS21 wouldnt be as big of a difference as the biggest difference would be in radar and EW suite but it would still be better, hence why I said that it could be foldered under the MS20. It would basically be a slightly worse 39E in most aspects basically making a bridge between 39C and E.
They could forego the MS21 variant as it has yet to be finalised and such and just add the 39E when they plan to add the F22/F35 as with the extremely advanced EW suite makes it basically on par with them.
Better radar with IRST and Meteor is nice but not something i look forward to when we have to fight 10+ missile slingers with on par weapons and radar. As for EW id ignore it until we see gaijin has plans to add it.
Again losing the current gripen would be a waste without a replacement.
Yes C&P is copy amd paste.
Who said we would loose the current Gripen?
It would larely be the same, a better radar, not by huge margins in range but still better, if they elected to make it the MS18 standard all it would loose is a few bombs, it would still have laser guided bombs but I don’t think JDAM’s were ever in Swedish service. I am fairly certan that they are integrated on the JAS 39 but I don’t know when. The only country with the Gripen that has JDAM’s (according to Wikipedia so not the best source) is Thailand.
The only bombs I know of in Swedish Service are GBU-12/GBU-49 and GBU-39.
Edit: it seems that GBU-16 and GBU-24 were integrated on the JAS 39 in 2001 but I don’t think the Swedish Airforce ever bought them
In service doesnt matter much to gaijin, what matters is whether it can mount them. Its why the SAAF gripen on launch was given AGM 65B in the first place. As for why the GR.7 can use AGM 65D idk, nor do i care. The snail does as it wants. Regardless gaijin is unlikely to give sweden a CAS focused gripen considering the majority are against another 400k rp sink with 1 difference. You’re gonna have to find something way more intriguing to warrant a CAS gripen being added. Additionally it more likely gaijin will just continue the Amalgamation mindset and the next gripen we get in the next 5 years being the Gripen E. Again thinking gaijin would add another gripen is a bit of a stretch but its quite likely we will see a premium one added eventually.
The next likely gripen is the prototype E model which will carry Meteor and IRIS-T as it also features most of the systems that the E carries while being a C model in size. Id be suprised if we get a another gripen that wasn’t just a 400k rp sink but only time will tell.
What makes you say that it would be CAS focused even with all the A2G munitions that it has now?
It would get Meteors and IRIS-T. Two of the ABSOLUTE BEST missiles in their categories. Meteor with ~70km (if not even more) NEZ (in best case scenario), and the IRIS-T with a shit ton of turning potential and ability to fire at a plane close behind you.
By your logic, if they don’t care as to what is carried then ALL western weapons should be carried on the Gripen at it is well known for ease of integration of different weapons so give all Gripens MICA ER, Brimstone and any other somewhat recent weapons you can think of…
Because gaijin only added AGM 65G to both sweden and SAAF because it was a balance factor on top of them being able to use it. Thats all that was. As for another Gripen C with Meteor and IRIS-T id rather get the best their is if possible and that just so happens to be the proto E model. One change being radar and then missiles imo isnt really that interesting to warrant a new vehicle especially when gaijin would be more likely to then ignore adding another Gripen C model which actually has way more to offer. Again this is all theoretical as we dont know how gaijin plans to model IRIS-T or Meteor, they could be meh or they could be strong. Again, id rather a Gripen with more to offer than a radar and missiles to warrant grinding another one. This is the same reason i was against the JA37D getting RB99, gaijin didn’t bother to model the previous Viggens properly and created a gap that would only cause problems trying to fill. Of course gaijin more than likely didnt plan to add a TT filler until the backlash from the Di being prem exclusive. Its why they didn’t get the cockpit right or the camos, or why the old prem model was given to the TT, so that the prem could stick out more. Say we get the MS20 gaijin is very likely to avoid adding the Gripen NG and thus skipping a way more valuable jet. Further more with how compressed the BR’s are and the current future the difference in BR between the current amalgam C would probably be .7 since gaijin is so against proper separation. Then the E would probably be added .3 higher than the MS20 because gaijin logic. Regardless its just my opinion you dont have to like it.
In short id rather we get Gripens with substantial and multiple changes instead of grinding 400k rp for 1 difference when they could just add those modules to the current Amalgam Model. The gap the current model moving up would leave cpuld be filled by Noway or Denmark which would add a bit of diversity to the playstyles and add a 5th air line which could focus on fixing certain ares on the nordic air tree which has major areas that need new vehicles and diversity in playstyle while also adding CAS to areas that are lacking.
GBU-49 Enhanced Paveway II instead GBU-31(V)1/B & GBU-38(V)1/B JDAM on swedish JAS39 Gripen C. I think.
But GBU-49 from Mirage 2000D RMV ?
RB 74 (M) replace with RB 98 (IRIS-T) Q1 or Q2 next year after decompression battle rating o 14.3 max. Maybe.
Again then something needs to be added to take the C’s place if it moves up. Again Germany screams they want Denmark because muh borders or that some of us speak Deutsch. (All because they want an F16AM) idk, if DK/NOR combined 5th air line are added and they replace the current C amalgamation then im fine with it. At least the F16AM has some unique attributes.
What do you mean here? MS19 or 20 (idk which) got GBU-49’s what has that to do with the Mirage? And I have no idea what you mean with the JDAM talk either. Do you mean that the Swedish JAS 39C should have the JDAM’s instead of the GBU-49, or vice versa, or mabye something else?
He normally just mentions stuff that also uses equipment without explaining why he mentioned it or quoting people just because they said something he mentions idk why he does this, dont think too much about it.
WHY WOULD IT MOVE UP, what I have been saying is that due to the massive difference in their capabilities (RB 99 (AIM-120B) to Meteor and RB 74 (AIM-9L (maybe upgraded seeker to the M standard) to IRIS-T, along with a new radar) what you are saying is like the upgrade from RB 71 to RB 99 is a sidegrade.
The MS18 variant would stay where we have the 39C now and MS20 variant would be in some higher BR
Gripen NG is more likely to become a Premium if it is ever added (sometime after JAS 39E) in my line of thinking
That is literally worse case scenario, its a bad trend imo to have the premium be better than the TT equivalents. As for the JAS39C moving up would be my solution to dealing with getting the MS20, the current C becomes MS20, then DK/NOR are added to fill weak sections throughout the TT and have the F16AM take the place of the JAS39C at 13.7, this allows for the C to not be a waste of 400k rp and for something different with actual changes be added to fill its role while also helping the rest of the tree.
It might be RDAF F-16AM MLU (M6.5 standard) and equipment like belgian F-16AM MLU from france tech tree but never bought GBU-39 SDB I, armed GBU-49/B and different target designator pod (Litening G4)
