MS (MaterialSystem) is more or less like the Block designations in US F16 for example. They are basically an upgrade standard. JAS 39C never got GBU-39 until 2015/16 with MS20, but in the same update they got the best non-AESA radar, new EW and RB 101 Meteor missiles.
The plane we have now is basically a MS18 (this update rolled out in 2005) due to it having the laser designator pod and some extra bombs from MS20 armament but no RB 101 or RB 98 (IRIS-T which it got with MS19).
Here you have a bit of a summation from Lynx_SE. although the plane in game is right now a mix of mostly MS18 and MS20. Maybe NVG’s were added in MS19 or it was improved but I dont know. I also think that we never used LITENING II, only LITENING III.
Mix MS19 & MS20, maybe
Instead Litening II targeting pod before major update " Firebirds" to main server
But I might worried gajin forgot implemented new targeting pod
If they decide to add an MS20 it would already have all that MS19 had due to every upgrade building on the previous, my poor choice of words may have led to a misunderstanding.
What we have right now is basically a MS17 (because old radar from JAS39A) with the air to ground armaments of the MS18 (GBU-12/16/10 and maybe GBU-24 but I don’t know if that was ever integrated) and GBU-39 and AGM-65G (Hungarian service) from MS20.
@Gunjob any word on what Model all the gripens are? Seems like the devs have just mixed and matched stuff and may end up just giving the SAAF gripen features it never had since they didn’t purchase the MS20 we seem to be moving towards. It would be nice to have an actual response rather than silence, rn it kinda seems like gaijin didn’t even know there was more version of the C model and just over simplified stuff.
Like do the devs believe that all C’s are the same? I dont understand how such a misconception could be this widespread that being a C means nothing than being a C.
I have a bug report up for the SAAF gripen right now but, im starting to think gaijin should acknowledge there are different models of the C similar to the US and their Blocks since this is a blatant oversite that allows for anyone with a “C” model to just have whatever upgrade they want like MS21. It also devalues the gripens as a whole. I could understand if everyone had the same model as an excuse for different weapons but this is essentially giving vehicles tech they could not use. Having the correct models would also help gaijin identify and list changes when they add later models.
My gut reaction here is that it sounds like miscommunication more than anything else, it would be good to have this clarified.
If i have understood things correctly they are all denoted “C” and handled as a general “C” versions without specific MS upgrades (which would never be possible with the currently available mechanics in the game). The biggest problem is that they really cant denote MS versions as that would force them to take functionality it currently has away, or give it capabilities that either cant be put in due to lack of mechanics or so overpowered that it would ruin balance.
So the currently best way (in my opinion) is for the DEV’s to pick and choose between the MS upgrades to balance it out (within reason for what the specific country that operate it has installed, with some minor exceptions), at least until even more modern jets and more mechanics are introduced. At that point i would personally love to see the DEV’s introduce the some of the different MS versions to fill out top tier air for those who need it.
Imo im fine if AGM65G and such can be proven to be used on MS19. For balance i believe the SAAF gripen should get them. I am against both SAAF, (eventually) Thailand, and Hungary getting the MS21 when they aren’t operators of the vehicle. This idea of Simplicity with the Gripens further inundates Sweden air as a whole when not all gripens are the same. Yes i think the Swedish and Hungarian Gripens should be guven their MS20 avionic upgrades since we seem to already have part of the MS20, i am against SAAF getting MS20 when they dont use it. This isn’t a question of them getting the equipment but about getting a vehicle they never operated or looked atm additionally adding the different MS series helps expand and further makes the Gripens more unique.
65 is a modular weapon. It uses the same soft and other things between different configurations. G is a name for a config with blast frag warhead, normal operation mode and IIR seeker.
So if a plane can operate one it can all.
Again ive only read AGM 65G mounted on MS20 gripens, again until i see proof that AGM65G was either used or compatible befor MS20 i will hold my doubts, no offense
If a plane is compatible with one version, it is with all.
Again, i need more than that, sorry
I need specific evidence of AGM 65G or higher on MS19 models not MS20
Would you be so kind as to explain the MS?
Sadly my knowledge is limited, so i have no idea how to diffirentiate MS19 from MS20 or any other.
MS stands for Materielsystem (material system idk) and it is basically the same thing as F16 block variations. MS17 is the first Gripen. And in service now is MS20, it is basically upgrade packages
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/XcUBkw4B8tyM
My bug report has most of the changes brought in with the MS series but again info on them is very tedious to find.
This is the current bug report. Again I have no intention of nerfing for the sake of nerfing, this is for the sake of having the gripens be accurate and it seems too many people have taken advantage of gaijin not being familiar with the MS series. If things need to be changed such as evidence for the AGM 65G being mounted on MS19 models i will change it.
But why start at 17?
This has been proven to be tested, but never used in service, was still added for balance.
As far as i know the only thing we have from the MS20 is the GBU-39.
Speculation:
I don’t think you need to worry about gripens of different countries getting upgrades they never had. The reason for not locking it to a specific MS currently is likely because they basically can’t. once they introduce a lot more features to the game then they possibly can. The non specific MS isn’t an open door for anything to be added, its just a way to be able to have any reason at all in the current state of the game.
totally agree, but will likely not be possible for quite some time.
I feel people got confused bout the Gripen C being different because gaijin gave SAAF the gripen C first so people mainly use that forum to discuss the gripen and end up using models of the C SAAF doesnt have to buff all gripens when discussing them. Again SAAF only has up to the MS19, Sweden is the only nation iirc to use the MS21 so it would be best for the long term for people to use this forum or to understand what MS models each nations runs so that this type of event doesnt happen again.
The A/C and MS overlap a bit between MS17/18. MS17 entered service in 2004 but 39C entered service in 2002
I will trust you for the AGM 65, you are very familiar with them (no offense to anyone else) so i will remove them from the bug report. But i think we need to make another bug report and actually get confirmation from gaijin. We do not need every gripen nation having vehicles with upgrades or items they cant use when other vehicles have the same restrictions.
