J11B should receive PL12B or more missiles to sit at 14.0

Dev Server "Hornet's Sting" General Discussion - Dev Server
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1

So Su30SM has PESA+mechanical scan radar, 14 missiles, upgraded fox3(R77-1), a tone of precision strike missiles & bombs, and TVC.

J11B has Standard PD radar, 6 pl12, 4 PL8b, no new fox3, almost zero air to ground capability, no TVC and sits at the same br.

F18C, although inferior in the dev, but still has amazing air to ground capability and 10 fox3 & 2 fox2 for air rb.

All other 14.0 jets are 4+ gen multi role. However, J11B, as a ASF, only receive 6 PL12. Players shouldn’t be spending time and money on a mediocre vehicle.

How to save this jet?

  • More missiles
  • Same amount but PL12B
  • Remain as it is
0 voters
1 Like
2

I agree, and should carry precision-guided ground weapons

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The first picture is a J-16, not a J-11B

On the second picture you have marked the door for the landing gear.

The J-11B is structurely based on the Su-27, which is why it has only 2 pylons on the wing, plus the wingtip.

You will only ever get 6 PL-12s max on the J-11B

2 Likes
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The J16 is based on J11B as well. Structurally wise, their relation is kinda like J10B and J10C. So how come a J16 has a extra pair of pylons than J11B?

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Because the J-16 added an extra pair of pylons, the J-11B didn’t.

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You can tell the difference by the wing tip. J16 wing tip pylon is “l” shape other than “L” shape in the pic

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  1. TVC is mostly a gimmick
  2. Yes the Su-30 gets 12 missiles but the platform itself is underwhelming
  3. R-77-1s are good but once again limited by the platform
  4. The Eurofighter Typhoon also has 6 Fox 3s and 2 Fox 2s, the 15E can carry up to 8, the Rafale up to 8. So the J-11B getting 6 and 4 isnt an outlier-
  5. The J-11B while tested with A2G ordnance never really used it in service. Its up to gaijin if they want to add any
  6. The J-11B is currently the best flanker flight performance wise all around. The WS-10s on the lighter platform is just so nice.
  7. The F-18 is also a massive pile of ass. 10 AIM-120s but you dont go fast enough to use them for BVR. They arent good in dogfights, and thats kind of your whole thing.
1 Like
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J-11B has a 17.6% better airframe + engine combination.
J-11B’s radar is not in-game to judge as of current.
J-11B’s amount of missiles are at least on-par with everyone else at 14.0.
F-18C is looking to be a very potent 14.0 due to its better than F-16C flight performance below the speed of sound.

1 Like
9

Tbh my only concern with the hornet is that your missiles do not handle dogfights well. Which is your flight models entire shtick

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China is lacking a2g methods. It is unfair using J11B’s edge to compare with other 14.0 drawbacks. Typhoon, super maneuverable, amazing A2G. F18C, as I metioned earlier, inferior to Su30SM but 4 more Fox3s than j11B and again, amazing A2G.

It is fair to say J11B is the best flanker in terms of flight performance. But It’s a flanker after all. It will not be as good as typhoon and rafale in a dog fight.

What I mean is all the other 14.0 jets are MULTIROLE. If J11B is not leading in air rb, what makes it sits at 14.0?

2 Likes
11

My spreadsheet has 6 and 8 missile loadout options for aircraft that can bring more than 8 for a reason.
At some point people need to compromise on flight performance and missile count.

Also @两炮炸碎台独魂-长官我是福建人 I forgot to mention that J-11B performs as-well as F-16C in flight performance as another point of comparison.

2 Likes
12

multirole is irrelevant in a discussion about the aircrafts AIR RB battle rating (14.0)

2 Likes
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You metion fight performance in air rb. 14 missiles is way tooooo much for this small amount of compromise. Do you realize that in a 1v1 fight, J11B need to used limited chaff to evade the rain of R77-1s before get a missile out? While su30sm can even use its missiles to intercept all 6 PL12s that fired by J11B and still have 6 fox3s to use? Not to metion R77-1 has better performance than PL12

14

Excellent superficial argument. But that assumes a lot.

  1. It assumes the planes are in a 1v1 (they rarely will be)
  2. It ignores the factors in which the battle takes place (there’s ways to avoid Fox 3s beyond just using countermeasures)
  3. It completely ignores the J-11B just being a superior platform?

I feel like this is a repeat of when the 27SM got its Fox 3 count increased. More missiles doesn’t matter that much, if the platform they’re on is limited-

Which in the Su-30s case, it is VERY limited. The J-11B’s flight performance alone warrants 14.0, this is before we discuss its IR missiles and Radar which are both incomplete

15

  1. In air rb, limited loadout is more dangerous than 1v1. Su30 can launch at every target in sight but J11 needs to ration its limited payload.

  2. Sure, there are ways to avoid fox3. But how come the J11B has to be the one that avoids missiles and Su30sm can just spam those missiles?

  3. Double the missile amount, better missile(R77-1 beats PL12 under pretty much every scenario).

What makes you think slightly better flight performance makes up for all those? Though J11B has better flight performance than J11A. But It’s not like the (Mirage to Rafale) upgrade. It’s speed doesn’t make PL12 on par with r77-1.

Funny you metion radar. Su30SM has pesa, J11B has pd, so even more unfair

1 Like
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@AlvisWisla you wanna handle this one since you’ve got the charts, or is this a lost cause?

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In Seek and Destroy the Su-27SM had the F-15C’s beat for A2A load and yet in spite of that the 15Cs were the superior plane that update.

In Dance of Dragons, Firebirds, and Storm Warning this REMAINED true where planes with far less Fox 3s than the Su-27SM, were just dog walking it. high missile count doesn’t matter much if either the missile sucks, or the platform sucks.

Any plane in this stupid hypothetical situation would be doing the same. Very few planes have enough CMs to chaff 14 missiles all going to them. But the odds of you having 14 missiles fired at you alone, are low-

Not only are the two missiles performing very similarly at ranges currently on dev server, but the J-11 is just a significantly better platform. While the Su-30’s atrocious TWR means it struggles to BVR with these R-77-1s meaning that the F-15E, J-11B, and Typhoon will all have it beat at long range combat-

The R-77-1 is great (not as good as people are exaggerating), the Su-30SM however is holding back the missiles potential.

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You find Su27sm in an awkward position is because R77 is one of the worst fox3 in middle range. R77-1 fixs that problem, and Su30sm gets an extra pair.

Su27sm gets 8 fox3 & 4 fox2. F15C can also carry 8 fox3. So in middle range fight the su27sm doesn’t indeed have an edge in terms of both amount and quality of fox3. Typhoon gets 6 fox3, rafale gets 6 as well. How come they have “far less” fox3 than su27sm?

You probably heard about: “Quantitative change leads to qualitative change.”

12 fox3 is making a huge difference. 8 fox3 vs. 6 fox3 is superior. 12 vs 6 is dominanting

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I see you once again ignored the problem being the Su-30SM as a platform being incapable of taking advantage of the R-77-1s biggest selling point. It’s range. It’s TWR is too low to beat the aforementioned nato planes.

So while enough quantity might make something better, there’s a massive quality issue still holding back the Su-30SM.

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Stupid crying