Italy and Germanys top tier future

[Morvran]

Why?

F-15s didnt get artificially limited to only 8x GBU-53s for the sake of balance.

Su-34s werent artificially limited to only KH-38MLs when they were first added and totally OP

etc etc

I dont see why the Typhoons should be artificially nerfed either.

@MiGoon_Fox-3

Final thing, considering how bad gaijin is at balancing already, do you really think they can do that uniquely for separate gamemodes?

The current system already screws over the balance.

Like Tornado GR1 basically being given ARMs that as far as I can tell, are literally unusable in NE just so that it stays at 11.3 in GRB.

Its genuinely stupid.

Getting kinda fed up of it tbh. I dont care about GRB, me spamming ALARM in the GR1, Firing Brimstones in the GR4 or unleashing Full strength Spear-3s or Storm Shadows in the Typhoon in NE should have absolutely no baring in GRB.

[Morvran]

@ScimitarsCurse

Still dont get his aversion to the hawks last update

Are the T1s in a healthy state at the moment?

[ScimitarsCurse]

@Morvran_

Are the T1s in a healthy state at the moment?

F*** no lad. But you lost your mind over them instead of being happy they are at least in the game.

from their performance last month they could well drop to 7.0 in air battles

RB

Spoiler

AB

Spoiler

SB (jesus christ the FRP probably only got played by one guy in SB)

Spoiler

Either way you came off as rather ungrateful about them

[Morvran]

Im not sure where I “lost my mind over them being added” comes from. But I just made an educated guess that they would be pretty poor in the current state of the game and knew the moment it was annoucned that it would be put on a shelf until such time that it was playable.

Hawks are pretty terrible airframes even in their stronger 10.7 config, weaker engine, isnt going to help.

Very limited ammo count on a difficult to use gun also not greater either.

Basically no CAS payload to speak of means using it as a ground attacker in ASB was also very unlikely to be worthwhile.

So… No I wasnt overally excited for it, sure, nice it was finally added, but until we get a comprehensive decompression or a serious BR drop for it… its also not one that im gunna bother spading for a while either.

Ive neither played nor really enjoyed anything in the 7.X or 8.X ranges for a while now because of the compression.

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@Morvran_

I dont care about GRB

Sorry, but any change to an aircraft will have to also take how it affects it in grb into account
Whether you like it or not

I also think balancing something based on NE right now is a little short-sighted
That gamemode is clearly very unfinished.
imo we should wait till it’s actually in a more finished state before we balance stuff based on that mode - Especially since it hasn’t been out that long

[ScimitarsCurse]

@Morvran_

weaker engine, isnt going to help.

the weight difference makes the T1a and 200 perform almost identical in FM in practice.

@Morvran_

So… No I wasnt overally excited for it, sure, nice it was finally added, but until we get a comprehensive decompression or a serious BR drop for it… its also not one that im gunna bother spading for a while either.

Ive neither played nor really enjoyed anything in the 7.X or 8.X ranges for a while now because of the compression.

even with the compression those BRs are my home lol

[Morvran]

@MiGoon_Fox-3

Sorry, but any change to an aircraft will have to also take how it affects it in grb into account
Whether you like it or not

But why?

There is not a single reason why it has to work like that. The only reason it does is because Gaijin.

There are a number of ways you could make it so that GRB is still balanced whilst airmodes are totally unrestricted.

This would be my solution:

Spawn Point Overhaul for aircraft in Ground Realistic

As it currently stands, Spawn Points (SP) are a woefully under utilised mechanic for balancing aircraft and loadouts. They use the most basic possible implementation which is that the most expensive item in the loadout dictates the spawn cost. It doesn’t matter how many of that weapon you are running or what you might be running alongside it, that will be your total. There is another issue that my proposed SP changes would fix. Limiting loadouts from aircraft so they are balanced in GRB and wit…

Weapon is too strong in GRB? Increase its SP cost. So strong that it needs to be “removed” from GRB, makes its SP cost so stupidly high, that spawning a nuke is cheaper.

Then it doesnt matter what is added to aircraft, because it cant affect GRB

@MiGoon_Fox-3

I also think balancing something based on NE right now is a little short-sighted
That gamemode is clearly very unfinished.
imo we should wait till it’s actually in a more finished state before we balance stuff based on that mode - Especially since it hasn’t been out that long

I think its pretty clear by now that they arent going to fix the SAMs and if anything, are likely to make them stronger (they are literally currently testing smaller maps, not the bigger more spread out maps the community has actually been asking for)

so quite frankly. all aircraft need a buff in NE for CAS, not just the Typhoon.

[Morvran]

I just dont enjoy them, much happier at the moment doing SEAD in the GR4, usually with a wingman like beeschurger in NE than touching literally anything else at the moment.

[ScimitarsCurse]

@Morvran_

all aircraft need a buff in NE for CAS, not just the Typhoon.

not really.

a lobotomy to the SAMs to let people CAS would fix a lot of it, and making CAS rewards drastically better will be better.

(id hope a nerf to CAS rewards in ground battles happens too to force CAS mains to sod off to the mode made specifically for them)

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@Morvran_

This would be my solution:

That hasn’t been implemented yet
or even accepted.
So we will have to go off the assumption that this will not happen.

@Morvran_

Weapon is too strong in GRB? Increase its SP cost.

That has done literally nothing to make CAS less op.

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@ScimitarsCurse

a lobotomy to the SAMs to let people CAS would fix a lot of it, and making CAS rewards drastically better will be better.

This is ideal
removing the bullshit 6th sense they have rn would help a lot

Fix the mode first
Then consider changing the vehicles

Not some horrible amalgamation of both based on assumptions and what may or may not be cope

[Morvran]

@ScimitarsCurse

a lobotomy to the SAMs to let people CAS would fix a lot of it, and making CAS rewards drastically better will be better.

I still think there is a lot of room to improve balance between nations, and there is little reason why aircraft like the Tornado GR1 couldnt have ALARM in NE.

Let alone aircraft like the Harrier GR7 also getting ALARM, or Tornado GR4/Typhoons getting SAL Brimstone 2s, etc etc

[ScimitarsCurse]

@Morvran_

Weapon is too strong in GRB? Increase its SP cost

already done and doesnt actually work.

Yak9K is still rife

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@ScimitarsCurse

already done and doesnt actually work.

any top tier plane

Increasing the sp cost doesn’t stop the vehicle from being op
You’re just moving the problem elsewhere, not solving it

[Morvran]

@MiGoon_Fox-3

That hasn’t been implemented yet
or even accepted.
So we will have to go off the assumption that this will not happen.

and thus I return to my original point, which is the current implementation is stupid and they need to find a better way.

Especially now we have a A2G gamemode for aircraft.

ALARM for Tornado GR1, Jaguar GR1A, Harrier GR7, Hawk 200 RDA

Brimstone 2s for Tornado GR4 and Typhoon

Spear-3 for the Typhoon

Storm Shadow for the Tornado and Typhoon

Maybe soon. BL755 for a lot more aircraft than I suspect will actually get access to it.

etc etc etc

Just so much is lost on aircraft and would be a lot fun, but nope, tankers come first

@MiGoon_Fox-3

That has done literally nothing to make CAS less op.

Because the increases have been tiny and rarely actually address some of the issues.

[MiGoon_Fox-3]

@Morvran_

and thus I return to my original point, which is the current implementation is stupid and they need to find a better way.

Until we have that, we base any discussion regarding balance on how the game is right now.
Not on a hypothetical balance feature that may or may not come whenever

[Morvran]

Which is why I would suggest adding still massively artificially limited versions of weapons like SAL-only Brimstone 2s or GNSS-Only Spear-3s.

rather than Mode 2 or Mode 3 MMW versions. (though I am still of the opinion that Mode 2 Brimstone 2s would still be way way weaker than MITL LMUR or Spike-NLOS that they are likely adding back to helis before they add MMW)

But there is a lot that there simply is no counter agument for, like why the Harrier Gr7 still doesnt have 2x ALARM for example.

[ScimitarsCurse]

and moving them up doesnt really either, as most of the ones moved up arent moved enough or werent the right target.

I know the idea of reducing rewards is sacrilege here but hear me out. SP and BR increases arent disinsentivising CAS spam and revenge bombings.

@ScimitarsCurse

(id hope a nerf to CAS rewards in ground battles happens too to force CAS mains to sod off to the mode made specifically for them)

NE is a mode that heavily favours ground strikers vs GRB and ARB by nature, [that] kind of player needs to push to go there to take some pressure off of tankers

[Morvran]

@ScimitarsCurse

NE is a mode that heavily favours ground strikers vs GRB and ARB by nature, [that] kind of player needs to push to go there to take some pressure off of tankers

I am of the opinion that a decent A2G gamemode for aircraft will reduce this and is a big reason why helis need adding to NE.

And if aircraft could be totally unrestricted in airmodes that would draw more people to it

[ScimitarsCurse]

@Morvran_

Which is why I would suggest adding still massively artificially limited versions of weapons like SAL-only Brimstone 2s or GNSS-Only Spear-3s.

and have the same bitching we all do about brimstone? no thanks, make them work or dont add them.

@Morvran_

But there is a lot that there simply is no counter agument for, like why the Harrier Gr7 still doesnt have ALARM for example.

and T10, there isnt really any reason why it couldnt have been the 12.3 premium instead of a mig21 nobody wanted