Italian F-104s are severely over-BR'd

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
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7

Mig-21s are slower; Mig-23MLs are slightly faster, and that’s it in that regard.

The difference in acceleration between F-104S and F-4E is extremely similar to the difference between F-15E and F-15C.
And both F-104S and F-15E sacrifices sustained turn for that extra speed.

Also I personally won a match on Road to Grozny using the F-104S as the sole survivor on my team by bombing and hitting ground targets, as that was the only thing I could do against the last opponent on the enemy team.
Do not underestimate the impact PVE actions have, especially for the multi-role F-104s that are the G and S.

8

100% with you they have simply no reason to be this high and with them being an important part of the TT it’s almost mandatory for them to be lowered.

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9

Just barely, while being much more maneuverable.

F-15E is still very dominant in air to air while the F-104s at these BRs are really lacking.

You wouldn’t have to bomb if the F-104 was lower in BR and thus a relevant threat in air to air, would you?

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10

not much and they have no problem at outrunning you or out climbing you most of the times if you are stock and if you are spaded than they probably won’t out climb you but still chase you down regardless

11

Right? Currently grinding the Italian air tree, bought the F-104G and bought a expert crew for SL on it, it was just then that I realised I had ground battles set and saw 10.0 BR instead of the actual 11.0 air battles BR. Waste of SL if you ask me. Decided to still give it a shot and I just couldn’t stand it. I just bought the MiG-21MF as soon as I could and it’s a much better experience. I’d even say the 10.3 MiG-21 is a better fighter than the 11.0 F-104G.

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12

I put myself trough the pain of playing all 3 F104 and the only one i managed to do slightly well so far is the F-104S only because of the sparrows even if they are useless under 1.5 km, I went for J35XS that were flying high and full of their “superior swedish technology”. I still don’t have a positive K/D in any of them.

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13

The F-104S should be 11.0 unless Gaijin buffs the airframe, and the ASA should be 11.3 since it’s not considerably better than the J-8B.

The other F-104s not in the italian tree should also be rebalanced.

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14

Don’t forget the 104S TAF at 11.0BR that doesn’t even have Limas. It’s stuck with Papas and base 7 Echoes.

15

The J-8B has only rear aspect missiles. On top of that the 9L F-111s are 11.7.

16

But it has the same SARH missiles, it can carry a gun with it’s SARH’s, it has much better flight performance, and a better RWR. The only thing that’s better on the F-104S ASA, is it’s radar and IR missile.

I honestly can’t see how the F-104S ASA is worthy of a higher BR than the Mig-23s, or even the F-4E or J-8B.

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17

Spoiler: It is not.

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18

This difference has no reason to exist.

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19

As they are curently, the BRs should, in my opinion, be as follows:

F-104G (including the German one) - 10.3
F-104S - 11.0
F-104S.ASA - 11.7, just because of the AIM-9Ls and Aspide-1A coupled with a radar that makes them usable.

This is imo the absolute highest these should be. Arguably could also go additional 0.3 BR lower, but that would be too much to ask.

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20

Remove all bombs/napalm and I’ll be fine movin em down.

21

Fine by me, fighters carrying bombs in Air RB shouldn’t even be a thing.

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22

You must be joking, play some games in these planes and tell me they are equivalent, balancing a fighter on its bomb load is hysterical.

23

They wouldn’t need the bombs if they were viable fighters.

24

F-104 isn’t a fighter. F-104S a bomber-interceptor if you want to get specific.
And if you want to try using it outside its role, you’re more than welcome to.

Cause otherwise you can argue B-29 should be BR 2.0 because it doesn’t do fighting other planes well…

25

Literally every jet is balanced on its air to air capabilities, using a ww2 bomber as an example to disprove that is dumb. You are literally one step away from wanting historical br’s. The f-104s in their current state are just not fun to play, so they need changes.

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26

It’s fighter-bomber or fighter-interceptor depending on configuration (Cacciabombardiere Ognitempo CBO or Cacciaintercettore Ognitempo CIO), in WT they are merged in one.