I had the pleasure of having a nice game with spawn killing and CAS combined.
Use a tank to kill spawn camper tanks? Pe-8 bomb for you and your teammates. Use a SPAA to kill Pe-8? well, get killed by spawn campers. Spawn a tank again to try and kill them again? Hey, look Pe-8 is back after reloading in airbase.
unfortunately friend I understand you, I play 11.0 with Americans, and unfortunately the situation is disgusting. the gaijin clearly favors the Russians, with indestructible T-80BVMs and ka-50/52s. I am writing this message to you after a game where a ka 50 resisted 2 missiles, it only caught fire and then put out the fire after running out of missiles he went back to the base to repair and came back, and killed a dozen us, and a t-80bvm killed 4 of us having absorbed all our shots. This is all pathetic and unfair, and I wouldn’t advise my worst enemy to play WT right now. and i think i will quit too if they don’t fix it soon, and i’ve been a PAYING player since 2013
The problem with war Thunder is that the gaijn for new vehicles invent statistics, and even when there is evidence that they are wrong, they ignore it, even that the t80bvm was destroyed in the front of the hull most likely by the t64 UA, and in tues the front of the bvm is impenetrable , they don’t verify sources and they take it as the manufacturer wrote on Wikipedia, it’s like America made a tank and said that the whole tank has 1500mm of armor on each side, and a 210mm gun, and the shells have a speed of 3000m / s and reload 2 seconds, and gaijn without reflexes would add it, and that’s how it is with russian vehicles, whether from ww2 or today, i recommend playing tank crew clothing russian manufacturer makes this game, in short no one plays russian tanks or planes and prefer the usa or the UK, because they are so weak, and in tues everything is invented, sometimes I have the impression that the only well-rendered nation is Germany and the rest is made for them and improved so that they would not be sad, I will not even talk about absurdities such that is2 can destroy a tiger 2h ahead believes where in reality the 122mm had lower penetration than the german 75mm/70, but what do you need to keep up the propaganda, unfortunately there are a lot of cool games with an idea for the east only developers from the east are 90% not suitable for making games, for example Eft or wt.
it’s not enjoyable if your only goal is to get to top tier.
There are many tanks and nations and br’s.
Forget top tier and play it when you get it.
The obsession with people achieving top tier is the fundamental issue with gameplay and other players.
i have top tier in 5 nations, do i play it much? no because its boring.
Did i “grind” to get there? - - - no i didnt - i just played all br’s enjoyed all the tanks etc and voila! i have top tier and frankly, the vehicles may be better, but the gameplay is sterile and the lower br’s are more fun.
I wish people would stop being obsessed with top tier, and if not - at least show some degree of skill or knowledge when you get there.
As long as the devs do not solve the disaster of the damage model, the volumetric bullets and the penetration calculator, the game would not be fun, it would be somewhat boring to the point of playing two or three games and closing the game because of the bullets that do nothing The absurd ricochets, the bullets that in reality pierce other tanks and in the game cannot, are all things that are frustrating and only encourage people to stop playing waiting for another company to release a better tank game.
Tank games are not popular enough for any other company to bother. And this ground mode relied soley on the popularity of a novel air game (due to a simplifed control method) and is strapped on as it could not sustain itself in todays gaming environment; it couldn’t even get off the ground itself!
Now, there is not much hope, we only have to wait for the others to stop being afraid of success, solve the problems and finally have a game in good condition and worth playing more than 3 games a day.
This is an issue that I do not think they can ever resolve and yet makes the game a lot worse overall.
When I started the vehicles did not go much beyond WWII, the point was not the love for particular vehicles but the game, the playing of the game. The grind elements give that feeling of “progress” but is just a addictive element that should be avoided as the reason for playing (in my mind).
Just think, if someone’s love for vehicles was bi-planes and pre-war tanks then they would be able to play what they want off the bat and never EVER have to play beyond Rank 1.
My thought is if people do not like the game from 1.0 to wherever their favourite vehicle is then maybe that is asking for disappointment. There is no real “end game”, the end game is the match you are in, to play for the enjoyment of playing, not the buzz from “progress”.
The issue then comes that so many now might want the top vehicles (which many players might well have sat on for ages and want new things as they are now bored, whereby a new player has the complete opposite and too much to do) and to get there they push through the game blindly (and so getting too far ahead with their experience).
Now this means that balancing is rubbish as many of the stats are by players sleepwalking through, then they get to where they want to play and possibly bring down that area too (depends if someone is here for grinding or trying to win matches). Those 10 players you took out might well be naff at the game and therefore is not a challenge, or then the 10 players might all be on top of their game and you were able to best them; you will never ever know!
Coming from a position of no real love for the military I never had a goal or a vehicle I had to get, the idea was to play a game. And to top that the 8.0ish and above was never really intended to be played on the maps/modes/gameplay style the game started with (after ground was added), hence a really wobbly game in my mind.
The thing is how do they make “where I want to play” achievable without mucking up the journey to get there. And yes, starting afresh with the latest tech in mind is going to be an almost impossible task if people want to be there yesterday. But then there are SO many different types of player all in one game that pleasing all is never ever going to happen (needs more modes, interesting things to do, but the population is relatively small and niche).
You’ve said lots of supremely interesting things in this comment, so sorry if this turned out into an almost sentence-by-sentence breakdown of your takes, but I found plenty to think about.
This is manifestly true, and maybe it’s my neurodivergence or maybe it’s just a personal attitude thing, but I don’t really understand why people obsess so much over the grind. I’m glad I don’t, it’s the aspect of WT that I find less interesting.
However, the game’s business model is clearly built around this. And I’m not just referring to premium time to speed up research etc, that stuff is obvious industry standard. Look at their marketing: they promise you Leopards and A-10s, and then a new player is confronted with a Pz III B etc. The dissonance is huge, and yes, it can make some players decide to buy a top tier premium to quickly rush through the ranks, but many others will do exactly as you say. They’ll play through the game like it’s a chore, half-interested in the vehicles they’re unlocking. They’ll either burn out in the process, and quit, or play very poorly on their way up and then get to top tier without having developed the skills they need to do well.
Yes. Moreover, the game sells you the illusion that if only you unlock the next vehicle, you’ll start “actually having real fun”. It’s the silent promise of a shortcut, you don’t have to actually get good yourself, just unlock the next vehicle. This is an artifact of the uptier system, since you always encounter a certain tank while being uptiered against it, think it’s super powerful, then you actually play it while being uptiered with it and the cycle begins anew.
I’m sure it helps keep the player population the way Gaijin wants it. But I suspect that it will harm the game in the long run. Producing burned-out players that don’t fall in love with the game/try to master its technical depth, doesn’t seem like a recipe for success to me. But I’m just a random dude and they’ve been doing this for years, so what do I know? There must be plenty I’m unaware of.
Yes. And when you combine this with the increasingly expanding roster of vehicles and countries (which I’m not against, just to be clear) you quickly outstrip the boundary conditions of balance in the original game, so to speak. It simply becomes impossible to chase down all the variables, and every change has another unintended consequence somewhere else.
That’s the part I currently find most frustrating. It makes it really hard to get an objective idea of your progress.
For me, it was the opposite starting point. Not in the sense that I’m a warmonger or anything lmao, I mean in the sense that I came to WT knowing exactly what I wanted: playing German vehicles from the 1930s and 1940s.
My interest in the history of the 3rd Reich predates me playing this game (or knowing that it existed) by several years. I’ve had the privilege to study German wartime economic data with a luminary in the field, when I was still in academia. Now that I’ve researched and spaded all of them, I have no ambition other than to get better and better at playing them. I suspect that makes me a very atypical player of this game, in terms of experience. I never look at SL and RP. Just at how I can do better with X machine. Check my recent Jagdtiger thread and you’ll see what I mean, and what keeps me playing this game.
Exactly. And to a degree, really, you don’t need to. But with better game design, you can get to a situation where you have the right incentives that Gaijin wants from its player base, while still giving players the tools to enjoy the experience, and - if they’re not here for the grind - to set goals for themselves, and chase them.
I think that’s the primary reason why they don’t get touched. They don’t want to mess with queue times by adding more modes, and they don’t want to risk compromising a winning formula by altering or replacing existing modes. And yet, they’re the part of the game in most need of love right now, in my opinion.
Even the last season of World War had some very creative and imho fantastic game modes. If that were a permanent event, I’d play that and sim all the time and forget about “regular” ground RB.
Which I assume is exactly the reason why Gaijin doesn’t make it into a permanent mode… :)