I defend everything that removes exploits.
Whether it’s removal of the ability to get up on the upper portion of Ash River or this.
If you want scouting tasks to include “Not By Intelligence”, make that your feedback.
I am supporting you if you want that.
It literally was unintended to work that way and got fixed. ofc it’s cheating the system. If it worked as intended they wouldn’t have patched it out.
If something is working exactly the way it was designed and people are using it as it’s designed, it’s not cheating, it’s not an exploit, it’s not scummy, it’s not unintended.
it was not working the way it was designed. that’s why it got fixed. If it was working as intended they wouldn’t have done anything about it.
finding something that does not work as intended and then exploiting it is exactly that - an exploit. cheating the system.
nobody talks about 10min - 5s would be enough
Okay so it’s bad game design at best, how is that player’s fault?
You genuinely think players should sit there, see a target and by like… oh no this one has already been shot, I should not scout this target because that’s cheating, I will reserve my scout for tanks that have not been spotted before, even though there is no way to know this whatsoever.
You gotta be kidding me.
I agree. I hate that change so much. It’s absolute garbage.
It wasn’t even by design. There was a mistake and they fixed it, what else do you want?
If you want to scout people to help your team, you should mark targets that they don’t see and not those that they’re already staring down. it doesn’t help your team in any way. and while alot of people don’t care for anything but the RP & SL grind, War Thunder is still a team game at its core.
If your scout just sits behind some cover and marks enemies that are already engaged and being killed, they don’t contribute anything meaningful to the team, just so they can either farm RP & SL without putting in any effort, or farm cost reductions so they can get into a plane to farm kills the easy way or to make it air rb with player controlled ground targets. just increasing SP cost would punish the players that actually play well and help their team; and it would not solve the issue either, since scout SP cost reductions are percentage based and add up.
If SL & RP rewards are reduced too like you said, it’s most likely to incentivice players to play properly and not hang back in a safe spot, marking targets already under fire and not contribute anything to the team. if two or three people do that your team is already at a big disadvantage.
Either you scout other tanks, especially not just in obvious spots where everyone goes to or your team is already shooting - you could watch a flank instead for example; or you can just shoot that enemy.
If you don’t contribute anything meaningful, why would you get rewarded for it?
The UI is god-awful.
What next? A fortnite related update?
Replace rounds with pokeballs?
Kermit the Frog as the voiceover for your crew?
That’s simply not true.
Daily tasks got updated almost a year ago, some tasks got slightlier easier but I’m sure the player favourite ones got a lot harder:
Here are the changes:
Even on the ones that got “easier” like the Worthy Play that require less score now suffered with other changes that Gaijin made like reducing score with certain actions like capturing points.
Daily Task already had been changed on a server update in 2021:
And most of the Daily Tasks(Battle Tasks) had already been made harder then, with a few exceptions like those that depend on scouting:
It wasn’t even by design. There was a mistake and they fixed it, what else do you want?
It was a mistake for the last 10 years or something? And if it was a mistake, how is it the player’s fault for just playing the way it was designed but instead you claim they’re cheatings, scumbags and exploiting the game for pressing a button?
If you want to scout people to help your team, you should mark targets that they don’t see and not those that they’re already staring down
Any target that is scouted is beneficial to the team, is the game going to inform me of targets that have been marked in the last 60 seconds? No.
If your scout just sits behind some cover and marks enemies that are already engaged and being killed, they don’t contribute anything meaningful to the team, just so they can either farm RP & SL without putting in any effort,
Again, a marked enemy is better than an unmarked enemy, there is not a single scenario in which a marked enemy is detrimental to the team and worse than it being unmarked.
And yeah… really farming that SL big time with those 150SL awards, only gotta scout 10.000 people and have them get killed and I can buy a single top tier vehicle with a crew… really exploiting the game by earning 150 SL at a time.
without putting in any effort
Scouting a target is still just pressing a button, if it’s previously marked or not is impossible to know and it’s entirely RNG from a player perspective… 50% change I’m ‘‘putting in effort and helping my team’’ or that ‘‘I’m a cheater, being scummy, exploiting the game and farming SL’’.
If the problem is earning a whopping 150 SL, then nerf the SL.
If the problem is farming reductions, then limit the reduction.
If the problem is farming a whopping 40RP, then nerf the RP.
If the the problem is completing daily tasks and special medals too fast, nerf the awards.
Guess which one got nerfed the most.
it’s just a vehicle shooter that tries to depict tanks as accurately as possible in the context of a game. It’s not a simulator, especially not for war.
It likely only came to their attention because of an increasing number of players abusing this exploit. Just as how traction only got nerfed when people regularly abused map spots they weren’t supposed to go to. How are you going to fix a mistake you don’t know is there?
Also, again, it wasn’t designed that way, that’s why they fixed a mistake in how it works. Design and actual application are two different things.
scouting a tank right infront of me that I disabled and am about to kill on my next shot is not beneficial in any way, shape or form.
there are several scenarios in which a player actively providing help and advancing the game is beneficial over not contributing anything by marking enemies you’re already well aware of and already in the process of killing.
you’re basically asking why behaving like someone who is AFK is a bad thing.
you really don’t know about multipliers huh…?
The problem is getting rewards for a non-beneficial action, a.k.a. an exploit, so they nerfed the rewards related to the exploit. seems like you finally get it?
Oh, no, you’re here.
It likely only came to their attention because of an increasing number of players abusing this exploit.
Source?
Just as how traction only got nerfed when people regularly abused map spots they weren’t supposed to go to.
Bad game design =/= exploit.
scouting a tank right infront of me that I disabled and am about to kill on my next shot is not beneficial in any way, shape or form.
Doesn’t hurt you either, and without having a time machine and being an omnipresent and all knowing being I see a friendly vehicle and an enemy vehicle without any way of knowing if it’s disabled or if you’re disabled etc, calling me a cheater for scouting that vehicle is in insane take to have.
why behaving like someone who is AFK is a bad thing.
Assuming you can only scout vehicles by sitting behind a hill or something and not actively participating and marking targets when possible.
you really don’t know about multipliers huh…?
Multiply it by 5x if you want, that’s still less than 1k SL.
Nor is it shown anywhere that awards are multplied, you think if you drop a nuke for 15k that’s going to get multiplied as well?
An intelligence award is 150 SL, a single APFSDS shell costs more than that.
- seeking out tanks that aren’t just standing infront of your teammates is effort.
Disingenous argument, these vehicles can be anywhere on the map, there could be an enemy across the map behind a hill and someone managed to hit it with an MG and it relocates.
I see that same target in a different location 20 seconds later, no one knowns where he is and no one has seem him in 20 seconds, I scout it.
The guy who hit it before is still in the area and is now able to hunt him down, but I will not get an award and I’m a scumbag, cheater, exploiter, I’m basically AFK and detrimental to my team and a useless waste of oxygen for scouting this target because I should have known he was marked 20 seconds earlier.
specifically trying to do that repeatedly is scummy and cheating.
You can only scout the same target once in 30 seconds, you can’t repeatedly do that anyways.
And then if that’s the issue, why isn’t the timer 5 seconds instead of 60 seconds, that’s TWICE the duration of scouting a target, and it’s an entirely invisible timer.
The problem is getting rewards for a non-beneficial action, a.k.a. an exploit, so they nerfed the rewards related to the exploit. seems like you finally get it?
Entirely impossible to flat out state an action is non-beneficial, and paired with how often the scouting failed, or how often a target has died mere seconds after a scout, it seems fine to get some easier ones.
CAS is still abused, scouting still happens as frequently, all you did was nerf the economy and made it significantly more difficult to complete daily tasks, once again and called it an improvement.
There’s always going to be, and should be, some increase in speed if the turret is traversing in the same direction the hull is turning.
The issue reported (back in 2020 now) was more obvious in contra-rotation, where the turret traverse could keep up and stay on target while the hull rotated in the opposite direction, even when the hull turning rate was significantly faster than the stated turret traverse (such as the T-55A’s 9 degrees per second).
The does seem to be changed now. On stabilized tanks like the T-55A the point of aim is slowly being dragged off target for the first 180 degrees by a turning hull, even if you’re fully traversing in the other direction, if your turret traverse rate is slower than how fast you can hull-rotate. (As a quick check, Crusader II, which has vertical stab only, not two-plane, is also affected by this.)
Not sure if we’re 100% accurate to how a real tank traverse in that situation works yet, but it is different than it was, and should offer a slight game nerf to any tanks with slower traverse rates.
“likely” → its an assumption based on how it usually happens in games.
you can’t just throw way too generalizing “bad game design” at everything you don’t like and call it a day.
If there’s an unintended bug/glitch/mistake that you regularly use to your advantage, that’s an exploit.
If the scouting system could be used in an unintended way, that’s not “bad game design”, that’s a mistake made with the system, as since it is unintended and therefore got fixed, it wasn’t designed to work that way in the first place.
Bad design is when the intended way a system works is bad (and yes, you can certainly have that discussion about the spotting system, but that’s a whole different topic).
If you design something on paper or as an idea and then the practical appliance of said design has a mistake beyond what the design tells it to do, it’s not the design’s fault.
the dude sitting behind cover doing nothing than putting useless marks on enemies is hurting his entire team by not participating in any meaningful way, therefore giving his team an unfair disadvantage by basically being down one player.
On the other hand, marking an enemy your team already clearly sees and fights provides nothing of value, why would you get rewarded for it? this new system doesn’t make you pay SL for such targets, it just reduced the rewards. you’re not getting punished.
it’s the behaviour people abusing this exploit showed.
actually, yes, that’s how SL boosters, premium modifiers, etc work. beyond that, things like kills and scouting get a multiplier for active time and useful actions on top of that, there’s also a multiplier for winning.
just solely based on the numbers that pop up ingame you wouldn’t come anywhere near 50k+ SL in a single game, yet I’ve had several with over 100k.
If it really just sits at those 150SL or 600SL or whatever, why do you even care about this change at all?
you’re basing all that on the assumption everything you described plays out within a minute, I kinda doubt a guy on the other side of the map that relocates would be sought out and destroy by a guy MG’ing him from across the map within a short time frame.
Otherwise he didn’t relocate all that much and your scout isn’t really useful since he popped up at a similar place, the other player could’ve used his eyeballs mk.1 to spot him.
again, you’re not exploiting it if it happens by chance, that’s when you repeatedly and actively abuse the system in an unintended way. but they implemented this so people who actually do can’t just farm rewards out of actively exploitative gameplay.
What else is Gaijin supposed to do? Reward exploiting the game for egoistic benefit?
People always spout “blame the game, not the player”, “it’s not my fault if the exploit is in the game, it’s the game’s fault” yet when they try to fix the game to prevent exploitative behaviour, everyone blames the game again. Literally can’t make it right for everyone.
because 5 seconds is shorter than most tanks reload, there would be no point then. The engagements you described where the scouting actually matters for relocating, huntng a target down etc usually last more than a couple seconds anyway.
there’s less exploiters, though on an average-game-basis it’s probably not noticeable that much.
the point of the fix wasn’t that scouts are supposed to happen less?
truly a devasting loss to the economy then. how will the economy ever recover from that, noone will be able to buy techtree tanks without real money anymore
with normal gameplay it won’t have much of an impact. for your example, someone MG’s a target, you scout that, he relocates, someone else in your team kills them, you still get the intelligence reward and point for your daily task.
otherwise, blame the people that exploited this mechanic so heavily that Gaijin seemingly felt the need to fix the problem. if it wasn’t a problem, it wouldn’t need fixing, and they wouldn’t spend manpower on it.
What about FPS freezes for ground vehicles? Are you working on fixing that?
They only fixed the fps freezing for air players, on ground you have nothing but wait in your frozen AA for KA50 or SU to spam rockets at you at close range or fire missiles at 20km target lock when same time game wont give you a lock on heli hovering 1km away in open sight from your AA.
I suspect it was more to balance the pro-scouting LOS fix. If that had just got in without something to counterbalance it there would definitely have been more SP generated for CAS than before.
The problem with RB scouting before (well, one problem) was getting an Active Scout marker at distance was so unreliable that scouts didn’t take chances and tended to go for the easy close scouts of already-seen targets, at least in my experience. Increasing the reliability at all ranges could have required an offset.
FWIW I do think 60 seconds of lockout seems too long given an initial Active Scout expires at 30. But in AB a lockout provision like this has always been there and does, at least tacitly, encourage scouts to look deeper.