Israel is the worst nation to play in, and Raam Sagol is a useless headache

[Chilean_Thunder]

@KaiserGX

That said, there’s an interesting proposal floating around suggesting the addition of Chile into the Israeli tech tree, adding local or modified German vehicles to provide more versatility and depth. I don’t think that would suddenly make Israel the best nation in the game, but it would help them climb out of the bottom in terms of performance and make them a far more viable and appealing tree to grind.

Indeed, Chile could give Israel the things it lacks the most, such as a large number of light vehicles, anti-aircraft guns, and tank destroyers. Best of all, several of these vehicles are of Israeli origin or have some Israeli element, so they make a lot of sense in Israel. These would be:

Cardoen Piraña 6x6 TCM-20 (BR 4.7)

• Description:
  • Mowag Piranha built under license in Chile by Cardoen industries, this version has 2 HS.404 automatic cannons better known as TCM-20 of Israeli origin for anti-aircraft defense. It could be the direct continuation of Israel’s TCM-20 since it represents an improvement in speed and protection of the crew as it is a completely closed vehicle that withstands low-caliber shots.

M-51 Repotenciado (BR 7.3)

• Description:
  • Israeli M-51 that were sold to Chile and later modernized, the engine was changed to a new Detroit diesel 8V-71T of 475 hp engine that increased the maximum speed to 41 km/h, which improved its ability to climb steep slopes. The engine platform was modified and a new exhaust outlet was installed for the engine, an improved periscope was added for the driver, the MSZ-2 fire control system was added that had a laser rangefinder for the gunner, a special support for minesweepers that also acted as additional armor on the front of the tank.

M41 Repotenciado (BR 7.3)

• Description:
  • M41 from Chile modernized by Israeli companies, the Nimda company changed the original engine for a Detroit Diesel 8V-71T and modified the engine area by eliminating the 2 original engine exhaust outlets, the Elbit and Elop companies added the fire control system Lan-Sadot added new optics for the commander and gunner, a ballistic computer and a laser rangefinder to the tank. Finally, the Chilean army added 4 smoke launchers to some of these tanks.

M24 HVMS Super Chaffee (BR 7.3)

• Description:
  • Chilean M24 armed with the Israeli IMI HVMS 60 mm cannon capable of firing APFSDS-T ammunition, mount for an extra 7.62 mm Browning M1919 machine gun, new Detroit Diesel 6V-53T engine, new Allison HT 700 5-speed automatic transmission, new fire control system and new gyro stabilizer. The weight increased to 22 tons.

M-50 HVMS Super Sherman (BR 7.3)

• Description:
  • M-50 purchased from Israel by Chile and armed with the Israeli IMI HVMS 60 mm cannon capable of firing APFSDS-T ammunition, in Chile they were modified to have a semi-automatic reloading system that allowed it to fire 12 shots per minute, new Detroit diesel 8V-71T of 475 hp engine , new engine platform and new exhaust outlet, new periscope with light intensifier for the commander for night missions, new rotating periscope for the driver, new fire control system MSZ-2 for the gunner that has a laser rangefinder. All these improvements made it the most powerful Sherman ever operated.

Ail Storm 106mm (BR 7.3)

• Description:
  • 106mm recoilless guns are mounted on Israeli Ail Storm M240 light vehicles that do not have a roof so that the guns be fired from them and have an extra metal plate for the engine cover for the cannon to rest on, in addition these cannons were modified in Chile and very important features were added, which are: thermal or infrared sight, laser rangefinder, digital aiming with fire calculator and MVS-800 night vision system and the driver is he equipped him with the independent NVG-50 system. The vehicle can carry up to 7 shells, 1 reloaded in the cannon and 6 in the rear of the vehicle under the feet of the loader and gunner.

M41 HVMS (BR 7.7)

• Description:

  • Prototype of a Chilean M41 walker bulldog armed with the Israeli IMI HVMS 60 mm cannon capable of firing APFSDS-T ammunition.

FAMAE Piraña 6x6 HVMS (BR 8.0)

• Description:
  • Mowag Piranha built under license in Chile by Cardoen industries, this version uses the Israeli IMI HVMS 60 mm cannon capable of firing APFSDS-T ammunition. This Chilean variant also has a turret designed by IMI for the M113 which had 2 different loading systems, one semi-automatic and the other automatic. It is unknown which of the 2 systems this prototype used. In the game it would be very similar or almost the same as the Italian AUBL/74 HVG but this version would be Chilean/Israeli.

Cardoen Piraña 6x6 LAHAT (BR 9.3)

• Description:
  • Mowag Piranha built under license in Chile by Cardoen industries and Famae, this version uses an octuple launcher of Israeli LAHAT anti-tank missiles. This prototype was seen in the desert north of Chile carrying out test shots. There is also a video where you can see a Leopard 1V from Chile firing this missile.

Leopard 1V (BR 9.3)

• Description:
  • In 1997, Chile acquired 202 Leopard 1V combat tanks belonging to the Netherlands. These had a series of improvements which were a hydraulic turret stabilization system from the manufacturer Honeywell, appliqué-type spaced armor on the tank tower from the German manufacturer Blohm + Voss, side skirts on the hull and the EMES-12A3 AFSL-2 fire control system produced by Honeywell and Zeiss (today Hensoldt), so after this improvement process they received the designation 1V of Verbeterd or Improved. Before being received by Chile, the Panzer-Ziel night image intensification system und Beobachtungsgerät PZB 200 from AEG-Telefunken was added, a search light was also added to the top of the tank. Currently these tanks use Israeli IMI M413 Hetz-7 (APFSDS-T), IMI M156 (HESH) ammunition and the LAHAT anti-tank missile was also tested. There is also evidence of the use of the multispectral blanket of the Israeli company Fibrotex.

Leopard 2A4 CHL (MCS) (BR 11.3)

• Description:
  • In 2015, a FibroTex package was installed in a Leopard 2A4CHL of the Chilean army. The kit tested was called “multispectral cloak” and was intended to be deployed on mobile and static platforms. The kit does not protect against attack but provides electro-optic mimicry and protection against electromagnetic detection, which helps make the tank much more difficult to detect and therefore not as easily prey to anti-tank missiles or other infrared-guided devices (SWIR) or thermal systems. This new version of the Chilean Leopard also includes the most powerful Israeli M322 ammunition that penetrates up to 589 mm.

There are many more Chilean vehicles, but I only wanted to show those that have a direct relationship with Israel, which are quite a few and more than any other nation.

[Chilean_Thunder]

I also completely agree with what you say, I have all the Israeli vehicles and it is a suffering to grind the tree, I am not saying that the lower BR vehicles are bad but it is monotonous and boring to play the same thing over and over again, only medium vehicles. Israel really needs more light vehicles and tank destroyers without taking into account that they lack a good amount of anti-aircraft and some BR jumps are quite abrupt especially in the lower BR. In top tier it is true that it seems that the Merkavas are nerfed, I understand that in real life they are very resistant to protect the crew and in the game with a shot that you receive in the chassis you are almost always dead

[Circleati]

@KaiserGX

the Merkava Mk.3 uses two separate ammo racks instead of just one, which would be the logical and safer choice as is done in other Merkavas or similar vehicles.

I know it has multiple internal ammo racks, I think the ammo layout in the merk 3 is actually better than most other tanks at its br because it doeant store ammo in the turret and it stores it in the back of the tank instead of the front.

Youre not going to address any of my other points?

[Magikッ]

No point, he refuses to accept the advantages of the Mk.3 over 10.7 vehicles.

[TheAceOfAces]

Some really cool stuff here, thank you for sharing.

[thank_you_sir]

I think 11.0 is good for mk3.

[VF111_Sundowners]

I’d say 11.0 would be a good br for the Mk3s including the raam sagol. They used to be 10.7 before the raam was added and were probably doing a little too well hence why they were moved up. I think if they got a 5 sec reload and maybe the Lahat 11.3 would be fine but until then I’d say 11.0.

[KaiserGX]

Which others? Adding to this, you don’t even play with Israeli ground vehicles to give an opinion on the vehicle’s performance.

[KaiserGX]

Which ones? The cannon and the smoke, because I already told you they’re not relevant? Adding to that, the only one you’ve played with is the premium 2D Merkava, which is very good and performs well, but you haven’t played the Raam Segol or any Merkava MK3. It’s clear you don’t know its real advantages or disadvantages if you haven’t even tried it.

[Circleati]

@KaiserGX

Which others?

all the stuff you were wrong about, its hard to miss, theres a lot of it, for example you said the merk 3 had rounds in the turret like 3 times when it just doesnt

@KaiserGX

Adding to this, you don’t even play with Israeli ground vehicles to give an opinion on the vehicle’s performance.

1. I have friends who play them and I trust their opinions
2. you keep comparing the merkava to tanks which you have either not played or only played a few battles in, which to be honest makes me just as qualified to talk about them, considering I’ve hardly been talking about the merkavas performance, mostly I’ve just been refuting your sometimes very questionable arguments
3. bringing up the statcard opens a whole new can a worms. Considering your own stat card, my diagnosis is that in the merkavas you’re performing about the same as you normally do in the rest of your tanks, which is to say, exceedingly average at least in terms of k/d, but you’re losing battles a fair bit more (around 10%). So in the merkavas you’re either not supporting your team as well, probably playing more aggressively than you should in a merkava (considering you play a lot of lighter, faster tanks). Which is clearly not a playstyle that suits the merkavas because of all the reasons you yourself have listed. I myself often have trouble with this same problem, as most of the tanks I started playing were light tanks, so now I and terrible at playing heavier tanks. or youre just getting bad teams while playing israel at top tier, which may be true because you have similar stats in the merkava to your russian and US tanks, even though you perform decently in germany, the UK and sweden. if the UK werent there I would just put it down as benefiting from very good tanks, but because the UK is there I haven’t got a clue.

my advice is that you need to play the merkava more cautiously, its not a leopard, you shouldnt playing thinking that youll be able to survive being shot, stay around your team more and play more of a support role, defend caps more and dont snipe, use your high pen round to punish people who arent being cautious

[cursive-stare87]

Leo 2a4 copy? It’s called an Arjun and it’s nothing like a Leo. Also you can’t ignore the majority of Indian equipment which is Russian.

[dotSHINI]

i take it you have no idea about the Arjun then, the Arjun is in fact a leo 2a4 copy

It was developed together with the german company kmw, the developer of the leopards as well.
You need to understand that there is multiple versions of a leo. And in at least the appearance the Arjun copied the leopard 2a4. Not necesarily the performance but in plans and doctrine

[cursive-stare87]

There are multiple variants of the Arjun too and the playstyle of the Arjuns will be nowhere near the Leos.

Karna (Rank VII; BR 10.0)

The Karna tanks are the parade variants of the Ajeya/Arjun tanks in the Tank-EX program, now seeing the inclusion of rubber tracks, a commander’s sight, and roof MG.

Stats:

• Armament:
  • 1x 120mm ARDE Cannon (APFSDS, HEAT, HESH, SAMHO, TB… and… :)… PCB…)
  • 1x 12.7mm KSV Machine Gun (Roof)
  • 1x 7.62mm MAG Machine Gun (Coax.)
• Armor:
  • 40mm - ???mm (RHA, CHA, Kanchan Composite)
• Mobility:
  • ~65 km/h Forward
  • 5 km/h Back

Arjun Mk.1 (P) (Rank VII; BR 10.3)

The Arjun Mk.1 (P) is one of the first prototypes of the Arjun, being built in 1993, having a more turret closer to the final model now features a raised gunsight, and was key in testing the new 120mm Rifled Cannon, and would lead to the creation of the PPS (Pre-Production Series ) Arjuns, PPS-1 - PPS-14.

Stats:

• Armament:
  • 1x 120mm ARDE Cannon (APFSDS, HEAT, HESH)
  • 1x 7.62mm MAG Machine Gun (Coax.)
• Armor:
  • ??mm - ???mm (RHA, CHA, Kanchan Composite)
• Mobility:
  • ~70 km/h Forward
  • ~30 km/h Back

Arjun Mk.1 Early (Rank VII; BR 10.7)

The Arjun Mk.1 Early refers to the first limited-production run Arjuns based on the PPS-15, the final prototype and basis of the standard Arjun tank, PPS-15 built 1997 and the production run beginning in 1999. The Early Arjuns still used the sight found on the prototypes although now embedded in the turret 2A4-style and now has properly equipped GEN.1 Kanchan Armor, and now sees the inclusion of the commanders sight and roof MG.

Stats:

• Armament:
  • 1x 120mm ARDE Cannon (APFSDS, HEAT, HESH, TB… and… :)… PCB…)
  • 1x 12.7mm KSV Machine Gun (Roof)
  • 1x 7.62mm MAG Machine Gun (Coax.)
• Armor:
  • ??mm - ???mm (RHA, CHA, Kanchan Composite)
• Mobility:
  • ~70 km/h Forward
  • ~30 km/h Back

Arjun Mk.1 (Rank VII; BR 10.7)

The Standard Mk.1 is the regular serial production of the Arjun tanks from 2003-2018, with slightly improved Armor, a much improved gunner sight, and the shifting of the smoke grenades to the rear of the turret, and better electronation of equipment (although this doesn’t really matter in-game), and is now equipped with the SAMHO gun-launched ATGM.

Stats:

• Armament:
  • 1x 120mm ARDE Cannon (APFSDS, HEAT, HESH, SAMHO, TB… and… :)… PCB…)
  • 1x 12.7mm KSV Machine Gun (Roof)
  • 1x 7.62mm MAG Machine Gun (Coax.)
• Armor:
  • ??mm - ???mm (RHA, CHA, Kanchan Composite)
• Mobility:
  • ~70 km/h Forward
  • ~30 km/h Back

Arjun Mk.1 VIRCM (Rank VII; BR 11.0)

The Arjun Mk.1 VIRCM is a Arjun Mk.1 equipped with a soft-kill APS system designed by the Israeli-Company Elbit Systems, seeing its smoke launchers replaced with spectral smoke launcher mounted to the front of the turret and now is equipped with a IRCM emitter on the turret as well, similar to the T-90A’s Shtora system or the M1A1 HC.

Stats:

• Armament:
  • 1x 120mm ARDE Cannon (APFSDS, HEAT, HESH, SAMHO, TB… and… :)… PCB…)
  • 1x 12.7mm KSV Machine Gun (Roof)
  • 1x 7.62mm MAG Machine Gun (Coax.)
• Armor:
  • ??mm - ???mm (RHA, CHA, Kanchan Composite) + VIRCM Soft-Kill APS
• Mobility:
  • ~70 km/h Forward
  • ~30 km/h Back

Arjun Mk.2 (P) (Rank VIII; BR 11.7)

The Arjun Mk.2/IA prototype was first seen in 2018, being a Heavily-Upgraded Mk.I tank, seeing the addition of ERA and Composite blocks to the front and sides to the tank, a (TW) mine-plow, a upgraded gun and engine, new electronics, suspension, turret bustle, and GEN.2 Kanchan Armor. However with these additions, the Mk.IA prototype looses the commander’s sight and roof MG.

Stats:

• Armament:
  • 1x 120mm ARDE Cannon (APFSDS, HEAT, HESH, SAMHO, TB… and… :)… PCB…)
  • 1x 7.62mm MAG Machine Gun (Coax.)
• Armor:
  • ??mm - ???mm (RHA, CHA, Kanchan Composite, ERA)
• Mobility:
  • ~70 km/h Forward
  • ~30 km/h Back

Arjun Mk.1A (Rank VIII; BR 12.0)

The Arjun Mk.IA is the most advanced Arjun tank to date, first seeing production in 2019, and is slowly replacing the Mk.I Arjuns currently in service. The completed tank now features a 12.7mm RCWS, a LWS, upgraded commander’s sights, and over 70 additional upgrades to the tank.

Stats:

• Armament:
  • 1x 120mm ARDE Cannon (APFSDS, HEAT, HESH, SAMHO, TB… and… :)… PCB…)
  • 1x 12.7mm KSV Machine Gun (RCWS)
  • 1x 7.62mm MAG Machine Gun (Coax.)
• Armor:
  • ??mm - ???mm (RHA, CHA, Kanchan Composite, ERA)
• Mobility:
  • ~70 km/h Forward
  • ~30 km/h Back

[dotSHINI]

nicely learned of you. You are aware thats just add on armor on the original leo 2a4 copy right?
Its not a new constructed / developed tank, but just the upgraded version.
Facts stays arjun mk 1 in all its variants is a leo 2a4 copy co developed by kmw.
Mk2 are upgrades put onto that arjun mk1

[cursive-stare87]

No? first of all, the Arjun was not a direct copy in the first place. Secondly, there’s more than just Add-on armour. Each modification the Arjun gets the more it diverges from the Leopards. Your basically calling a widely - accepted indigenous tank a Copy of an existing tank which isn’t true.

[dotSHINI]

@cursive-stare87

the Arjun was not a direct copy in the first place.

@dotSHINI

And in at least the appearance the Arjun copied the leopard 2a4. Not necesarily the performance but in plans and doctrine

learn reading

@cursive-stare87

Secondly, there’s more than just Add-on armour

lws etc yes, still add ons

@cursive-stare87

Each modification the Arjun gets the more it diverges from the Leopards.

yes mk 1 still always will look like a 2a4 copy cause its based on it

@cursive-stare87

indigenous tank a Copy of an existing tank which isn’t true.

buddy, most people call it the 2a4 copy for a reason, specialy cause it was co developed by kmw.
It is an indiginous tank, but still can be a 2a4 copy

[cursive-stare87]

KMW didn’t stick around and the DRDO did most of the work after the initial designs.

• The Arjun uses Kanchan, an indigenous composite Armour developed by India.

• The Arjun can fire SAMHO (an indigenous ATGM) and LAHAT (an Israeli ATGM).

• The Arjun can also fire PCB (an indigenous round).

Together with it’s slower speed, ERA, Indigenous composite armour, slower rate of fire compared to some Leo 2a4 variants, and domestic + Israeli ATGMs, the Arjun will have a completely different play style.

[dotSHINI]

And still looks like a bad attempt of an leo 2a4 and again learn reading

@dotSHINI

And in at least the appearance the Arjun copied the leopard 2a4. Not necesarily the performance but in plans and doctrine

[Woldarsky]

just saying, the Leopards can also fire LAHAT, the missile is designed for the existing gun, not the other way around, Kanchan is just a name for composite armor, and a round is round regardless of the tank

[cursive-stare87]

The Arjuns use an indigenously designed 120mm rifled gun. While the Leopards use a 120mm smoothbore gun designed by Rheinmetall. The LAHAT was designed to be implemented independently for the Arjuns and the Leopard 2A7.

Kanchan is a different type of composite armour.

And if “a round is a round” then I don’t know why people complain about Britain using Solid shot on most of their tanks. the rounds aren’t any different right?