Israel is the worst nation to play in, and Raam Sagol is a useless headache

Currently, playing as the Israeli nation in War Thunder is one of the most frustrating experiences in ground battles, especially at high battle ratings (top tier). Despite the fact that Israel, in real life, possesses one of the most advanced armored doctrines in the world and a defense industry known for its innovation and effectiveness often surpassing powers like Russia in several domains in the game, it is reduced to a nation that cannot effectively compete with any of the others at the same tier. This is reflected not only in its consistently low win/loss ratio, but also in the overall underperformance of its high-tier armored vehicles, which simply fail to rival or meet the minimum expectations that any full tech tree should offer.

One of the clearest examples of this lack of care in design and balancing is the Raam Segol, a premium vehicle that seems to have been implemented without any thorough gameplay analysis or structural consistency. This tank suffers from a series of crippling weaknesses that make it nearly unplayable at its current BR of 11.3. Its chassis is extremely vulnerable even non-critical hits can result in instant destruction. Worse still, the ammunition is poorly distributed throughout the vehicle. Instead of being concentrated in a single, somewhat protected compartment (as is the case with many vehicles from other nations), the Raam Segol stores its rounds in two separate ammo racks, drastically increasing the chances of catastrophic detonation upon any penetration.

On top of that, its mobility is underwhelming, making early positioning difficult. Its large profile makes it hard to conceal, and its thermal optics are of such poor quality that engaging enemies at long distances despite having a powerful gun becomes impractical. As a result, its only real advantage is the use of smoke launchers, which is hardly enough to justify its placement at 11.3 BR, especially when compared to premium vehicles from other nations that offer competitive performance, strong armor, or advanced systems.

Even more concerning is the fact that the Merkava Mk.2D a supposedly inferior, older tech tree tank performs significantly better in top tier. The Mk.2D has superior survivability, a more reliable armor layout, and an overall more flexible battlefield presence. That a regular tech tree vehicle can so clearly outperform a premium one intended to represent the pinnacle of Israeli engineering is not only disappointing it is a strong indication that the Israeli tree as a whole is deeply unbalanced.

In summary, the current state of Israel in top tier feels like the result of neglect by the balancing team. This negatively affects not only the experience of players eager to explore this nation, but also the perceived design integrity of the game itself. An urgent review of the Raam Segol’s BR (ideally down to 10.7), an overhaul of its survivability, and a reevaluation of its internal ammo placement are all warranted. On a broader level, the role of Israel in the top-tier ground meta needs serious reconsideration. If War Thunder truly aims to represent the historical and technological capabilities of each nation accurately, then Israel deserves to be on par with the real-life military legacy it has earned.


Comparing the thermal camera with other Tier 11.0 and Tier 10.7 vehicles

Puma (11.0):

Birshma (10.7):

T-72AV TURMS-T (10.3):

Cristian II (10.7)

Analysis of protection against ammunition of the T-72 3BM22:

Shoot in Chasis:

Turret shooting:


10 Likes

I agree, Gaijin does not understand how to correctly implement nations. They put India in the British tree and add a T-90 when a Canadian Leo or Aussie Abrams would have made more sense. They added Benelux to France just to add C/P when Benelux (especially the Netherlands) had so much more potential.

23 Likes

I completely agree. Even Great Britain should join the Commonwealth members (Australia, Canada, India, and New Zealand), leaving Pakistan behind so China can complement itself.

My point was that India shouldn’t be in The British tree because Russian Tech has no place in a very western country. If a really important tank from another TT is going to be added to Britain it should at least be from a Western country.

2 Likes

Israel shouldn’t be got its own tech tree in first place but at the same time, as it’s a tech tree by now, it’s not exclusive to Israel having a bad high battle rating vehicle. The T-72AV (Turms-T) is a great example of this ‘Just a waste of money’ type Premium, and now with the new naval and fictional ships coming is also another good example of this.

But people will still buy those no matter how much times it been told to them the opposite, if the money is going in there’s no reason to go after changing something.

In case of Israel as tech tree is a big forced push, never seen people asking for but it’s in-game—“Just go in!” or something like that. But we can’t argue that the armor is inconsistent, Merkava never faced truly threats but some people running here and there and shooting rockets or rocks into it and being protected by yet efficient but light anti-chemical weapons armor.

Particularly I never seen any footage of a Merkava getting hit directly by another tank in pair of its capabilities, only some aftermath of attacks by ATGMs or anti-tank grenades.

1 Like

Israel has among the strongest 9.3 lineups in the game, and okay top BR lineup.
Its top end isn’t as amazing as USAs or Germany’s, and it’s still serviceable.

If you don’t like top BR matches, play more 9.3.
You are not forced to play any vehicle; play what you want.

@cursive-stare87
Oh no! Britain got a unique squadron vehicle!
Oh no! Benelux added 40% copy-paste to the 60% unique vehicles added! With 2+ unique vehicles being added last major update.

@Константинович7
Israel has more unique vehicles than China does. It definitely deserves its own tech tree.

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Far from what I know Israel offer only four different main battle tanks with only one major advances from the base model which is the Magach 7,

In other hand China which houses Taiwan offer much more (e.g., M48, M60, Type 59, Type 69 (and variations), ZTZ-88, ZTZ-96, ZTZ-99 and VT-4A1) and even could have more with a possible addition of late Taiwanese technology.

Behind Italy, China is the most diverse ground tech tree in-game that doesn’t require unnecessary research time like USA, Germany and specially USSR with loads of prototypes.

8 Likes

A T-44 is a notably modified T-34.
A T-54 is a notably modified T-44.
A T-55 is a modified T-54.
A T-62 is a further modified T-55.

A M46 Patton is a modification of M26… we’re going to streamline this part.
M47 M46.
M48 M47.
M60 M48.
M60A1 M60.
At some point you get to just before Abrams and Abrams at least shares the road wheels.

If we go China that one goes all the way back to T-54.
Type 59 T-54.
Type 69 Type 59.
Type 88 Type 69.
Type 96 Type 88.
Type 99 Type 96.

All unique tanks share similarities with their fathers that they are built out of the lessons of.

India has many examples of this and yet people say India doesn’t have enough to be it’s own tree

India has less unique MBTs IRL than Israel has unique Magachs [and Sabras].

The T-90 Bhishma TWMP that got added was not unique. There are heavily modified T-90 Bhismas, but the Bhisma TWMP is not unique except for it’s dozer blade which doesn’t make a difference.

If you claim that Israel is unique for having heavily modified M-60s then India would be the most unique tree if added to the game…

it may not make a difference but it is still unique

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No, the tank itself is the same.

its still a unique tank, the skin/camo and dozer blade are all that are required for that

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if something as minor as a dozer blade is unique then India would be the most unique in game

It also doesn’t have 3BM60, unlike the Russian version, so I would consider it a unique addition, despite being a Russian vehicle (just like the Mig-21 Bison).

However, you could argue that it should’ve been placed in the Russian tree somewhere, rather than the British tree.

2 Likes

Skin/Camo is only visual, not functional. i guess that means there is no such thing as a Copy/Paste vehicle then because all vehicles have a unique camo.

only beyond like rank 4/5

i said skin and dozer not just skin

Israel also starts at Rank 4. So why are you arguing against India?