Is US top tier too weak

[ExcaliburSniper]

The majority of people I talk/statcheck perform better or have a better time playing RU than US, and most people say they hate being on US because tHeY sUcK. The winrates we have match that, you can’t argue both sides at the same time, pick one.

AASM is far slower and easier to defeat. It’s also less frequent and France typically faces Russia which mitigates it.

@Morvran

The other 9 nations should have gotten new SPAA 2 years ago and the fact we are still waiting really really sucks.

@Morvran

It’s all nations.

US still suffers the most from the lack of good AA because US players make up the majority of US teams, which is also why players hate being on the US team → stompfest much more likely when CAS jets and helis can hover above the AO and not die immediately.

@Morvran

Fairly certain it already has the best shell in game

I’m not super knowledgeable on US rounds but from what I’ve heard it could get anti-ERA rounds which are sorely needed to mitigate russian armor. Any other dev would have done this when Relikt was added.

@Morvran

Abrams has smaller weakspots, better mobility, better fire rate and better shells than tanks like the Challenger 2, Ariete, Type 90, Merkava and the Chinese MBT

ROF and pen are less relevant than what you’re able to pen on the enemy tank. When a 2A6 and BVM duel, the BVM has way better odds because they don’t have to aim as carefully. Milliseconds matter, same as counter strike if one team has 30% larger heads.

@Morvran

Britain has the same system with no gun (So tenatively worse) and Israel doesnt even have a top tier SPAA at all, Italy only has an SPAAG and Japan’s is good under some conditions, but worse in others.

Again US systems matter more because they make up the bulk of a team. Imagine two teams

• A. 12 russian 2 italian 2 british
• B. 12 american 2 french 2 sweden

Team A has much better odds of controlling the sky, even though IT and UK have awful AA. Statistically misleading.

[Morvran]

@ExcaliburSniper

AASM is far slower and easier to defeat.

I actually find them a bit harder at times. But they both have the same important trait IR+IOG. That combo makes defeating them way harder than something like AGM-65

@ExcaliburSniper

I’m not super knowledgeable on US rounds but from what I’ve heard it could get anti-ERA rounds which are sorely needed to mitigate russian armor. Any other dev would have done this when Relikt was added.

DM53 and L27A1 are also suppose to have ERA Perforating tips. That is not a US exclusive issue.

@ExcaliburSniper

ROF and pen are less relevant than what you’re able to pen on the enemy tank. When a 2A6 and BVM duel, the BVM has way better odds because they don’t have to aim as carefully. Milliseconds matter, same as counter strike if one team has 30% larger heads.

Then I really dont recommend playing any other nations like Britain or Italy. If you think the Abrams has bad weakspots.

@ExcaliburSniper

Again US systems matter more because they make up the bulk of a team. Imagine two teams

• A. 12 russian 2 italian 2 british
• B. 12 american 2 french 2 sweden

@ExcaliburSniper

US still suffers the most from the lack of good AA because US players make up the majority of US teams, which is also why players hate being on the US team → stompfest much more likely when CAS jets and helis can hover above the AO and not die immediately.

I dont see the point? Are you saying that 8/10 nations should be DOA because the US gets played more? And the main reason they get played more is because Gaijin conistantly gives them more additions every update. If they actually fixed the issues with other nations, they would likely get more popular. I’ve personally heard WAY too many times people quitting playing a nation like Britain to play another nation because they couldnt stand the state the vehicles were in.

[ExcaliburSniper]

@Ion_Protogen

The US is the only nation that has a premium player/1DL crisis at top tier.

And that’s where most players play, it’s the endgame, so it should be the most important to balance.

@Ion_Protogen

I’m fairly sure Gaijin balances on something they call efficiency, which is just SL/hour. I think they mentioned it in a previous blog post, but I could be wrong.

Be that as it may, a team that wins more game gets more RP and more SL. Not because of the win bonus but because it’s easy to get kills when you’ve pushed the enemy spawn/have air dominance.

@Ion_Protogen

To prove you wrong, Sweden wasn’t the best nation at top tier until they got a good round instead of Dm33 that the Strv 122s had for the longest time.

No. They were the best and most feared because of the 122’s armor. It proves me right, tiny weakspots made it far better than German Leos. And again the WR of a minor doesn’t mean much especially since in my experience SWE tends to be with RU.

@Ion_Protogen

It all depends on playstyle.

This is just in: Fire power is irrelevant.

Gross misrepresentation.

@Ion_Protogen

It all depends on playstyle.

Playstyle has an impact but moving without dying is the most important aspect of the game, therefore armor quality as an oversized effect.

@Ion_Protogen

Britain has a worse ADATS, and Israels best SPAA is the 10.0 Chaparral.

Doesn’t matter. See above.

[Ion_Protogen]

@ExcaliburSniper

And that’s where most players play, it’s the endgame, so it should be the most important to balance.

Sadly it is.

@ExcaliburSniper

No. They were the best and most feared because of the 122’s armor.

I remember it being 50/50 for whether people liked the 2A6 or 122 better at that point.

@ExcaliburSniper

Gross misrepresentation.

@ExcaliburSniper

@Ion_Protogen

It already has the best firepower at top tier. (when combining reload+round quality)

Irrelevant.

@ExcaliburSniper

Playstyle has an impact but moving without dying is the most important aspect of the game, therefore armor quality as an oversized effect.

Once again, the sacrifices you need to make to have armour are sometimes enough to detract from the overall tank. Currently the 2A7/122s don’t have those drawbacks. Russian tanks have worse mobility, gun handling, gun depression, and turret armour, in order to go with their good hull armour.

@ExcaliburSniper

Doesn’t matter. See above.

It does matter.

[ExcaliburSniper]

@Morvran

I actually find them a bit harder at times. But they both have the same important trait IR+IOG. That combo makes defeating them way harder than something like AGM-65

Not really. Mavs need a direct hit but AASM is a Mk82 so a miss is more tolerable. Either way the Pantsir eats both, struggles more against Mavs actually.

@Morvran

DM53 and L27A1 are also suppose to have ERA Perforating tips. That is not a US exclusive issue.

Yeah something like that. Either way flying plate ERA is overtuned, anti-ERA rounds are undertuned, and they refuse to fix either.

@Morvran

Then I really dont recommend playing any other nations like Britain or Italy. If you think the Abrams has bad weakspots.

I do better with Italy. Abrams weak spots are just one component of the problem.

@Morvran

I dont see the point? Are you saying that 8/10 nations should be DOA because the US gets played more? And the main reason they get played more is because Gaijin conistantly gives them more additions every update. If they actually fixed the issues with other nations, they would likely get more popular. I’ve personally heard WAY too many times people quitting playing a nation like Britain to play another nation because they couldnt stand the state the vehicles were in.

You were saying that minor nations perform well with bad AA so ADATS isn’t the issue. I replied that this is misleading the AA of major nations matters much more since they make up a larger share of the team. Team A in my realistic example can spawn 12 pantsirs, Team B can spawn 12 ADATS and 4 VT1. 12 Pantsirs vs 4 VT1, team A has far better overall SAM.

[Morvran]

@ExcaliburSniper

You were saying that minor nations perform well with bad AA so ADATS isn’t the issue

No… I said that 4 nations have worse SPAA than the US currently.

[ExcaliburSniper]

@Ion_Protogen

I remember it being 50/50 for whether people liked the 2A6 or 122 better at that point.

Weakspots size on targets isn’t significantly different between DM33 and DM53. The numbers make it seem like a lot but in practice your room for error doesn’t increase since you still need to shoot the same zones (LFP/driver…).

@Ion_Protogen

Currently the 2A7/122s don’t have those drawbacks. Russian tanks have worse mobility, gun handling, gun depression, and turret armour, in order to go with their good hull armour.

You keep repeating that and it doesn’t get any less inconsequential or false. Mobility is better except for reverse speed. Turret armor is better. The rest are easy drawbacks to overcome and the better armor more than makes up for them where the player cannot.

@Ion_Protogen

It does matter.

I explained multiple times how it doesn’t and you’ve ignored it every time. Pattern forming.

[ExcaliburSniper]

@Morvran

Britain has the same system with no gun (So tenatively worse) and Israel doesnt even have a top tier SPAA at all, Italy only has an SPAAG and Japan’s is good under some conditions, but worse in others.

Only nations that have “good” SPAA at the moment are Soviets, China, France and Sweden. Germany better than most, but worse than others by quite a bit

That’s what you said. The obvious implication in the earlier context is that US doesn’t have the worst AA therefore the ADATS isn’t the issue. Yes you’re right and I was wrong, it’s not the worst AA, but its shittiness is more important because it faces the best CAS threats and is going to be the main AA of a team, that’s what I was getting at.
A full team of otomatics would get demolished harder than a team of ADATS, but the former doesn’t happen, the latter does.

[Morvran]

You made the claim that

@ExcaliburSniper

@Ion_Protogen

Good. AA should be very good, and all nations need something equivalent to, or better than the pantsir.

And the US has by far the worst. But you’re glancing over that. Cool.

The US has the worst SPAA, with the implication that is the worse SPAA at top tier compared to all other nations. I was correcting that assumption in that its actually 6/10. with 4 nations currently far weaker than the US in terms of SPAA

Quite frankly. ALL 10 nations need new top tier SPAA.

@ExcaliburSniper

important because it faces the best CAS threats

Whilst the Pantsir is obviously the best SPAA and so aircraft like the Su-34 have an easier time. Its not the ONLY top tier CAS power at the moment. Argubaly the US actually has the strongest CAS line-up at the moment due to the fact they can spawn in both the F-16C and F-15E without the SP cost increase normally associated with spawning 2 multirole aircraft (like spawning in the Typhoon and Gripen for Italy and Britain)

[ExcaliburSniper]

@Morvran

with 4 nations currently far weaker than the US in terms of SPAA

For the last time, only the major nations’ SPAA matter. Pantsir, ADATS, Flakrad. ADATS is by far the worst of the 3. It can’t even automatically lock a target found by its radar, and it’s not even allowed to keep a lock on incoming missiles, and it doesn’t even have smokes.

@Morvran

Argubaly the US actually has the strongest CAS line-up at the moment due to the fact they can spawn in both the F-16C and F-15E without the SP cost increase normally associated with spawning 2 multirole aircraft (like spawning in the Typhoon and Gripen for Italy and Britain)

US CAS is strong but that is negated by the fact that they can’t point and click like the SU34 can because of the Pantsir. A jet that can shoot from outside of SAM range is massively more effective than one that needs to constantly turn and dive and only has a split second to find and shoot targets.

Without the Pantsir both RU and US CAS would be broken, Pantsir just means RU CAS is allowed to dominate.

Also Apache UH60 and AH-1Z are stronger than Ka50 Ka52 and Mi28? Lmao

[Senri猫太沉]

In a match last night, a player with a negative KD who was driving an M1A2HC used arty to team-kill (TK) my M1A2 SEPV2, and didn’t even apologize. Yes, that was his only kill in the whole game. This idiot couldn’t even fire the arty accurately. When I was driving my second tank and was just one kill away from getting 2500 respawn points to nuke, another M1 KVT player with a negative KD blocked my line of sight, giving the enemy’s T90M a chance to reload its cannon and fire at us.What happened above was the case throughout my whole gaming experience for the entire night. These people don’t deserve to win when they play games.

[sdt777]

• BAD AAs

• No real tecnology ( like Trophy system)

• all MBTs use “normal” ammo (no uranium ammo)

• no Boron Carbide Ceramics only default snail armor. (while most all urss tanks have active defense system)

even having great guns all US tanks are weak thew are not bad just incomplete

[An_Pigeon]

Yeah man definitely agree there.
If it could use sidewinders then yeah add it, but i like seeing vehicles added with their full capacity.

Would st least give wn answer to other nations to compete with pantsir

[An_Pigeon]

Again i wouldn’t respond to the dude mate if you do not categorically agree youre a bias apologist.

I stopped responding when i made a plethora of points to which he responded to me and another guy just insulting us and it got removed.

Its.not worth your time.

[An_Pigeon]

The fact he didnt put any concise arguments across when, and just said irrelevant to your very well made points, shows that hes trolling or just looking for an argument.

I agree with you, the abrams firepower combo with mobility (average survivability too) and good turret armour makes up for the lack of the hull.

The 2a7 and 122 right now are annoying and are ahead of the competition but not to the point the abrams cant cinpete effectively

[MotorolaCRO]

@ExcaliburSniper

Turret armor is better.

T-tanks have better turret armor than Leopards.
Just lol.

@ExcaliburSniper

For the last time, only the major nations’ SPAA matter.

Let’s just ignore seven other nations because I said so.

[An_Pigeon]

I gotta say mate, you are consistently insulting others with absolutely no basis to do so,

@ExcaliburSniper

liar at best and cheater at worst

who are you to call him this?

@ExcaliburSniper

your side of this topic look like trash though

and no he did not, he literally used the definition of a word that you are throwing around to poke a massive hole in the insults you are using.

I come to the forums to have respectable, intelligent discussions without seeing others getting insults hurled at them.

@ExcaliburSniper

the evidence is the winrate and the way the average US vs RU game goes. an absolute stompfest where half your team is gone in 5 minutes and what’s left gets hit with six kh38 per minute.

that is not russian bias, thats due to one death leavers, even guys with full lineups leaving,

@ExcaliburSniper

Abrams a better round are very easy way to bring the winrate back to ~50%

it wont bring it back to 50 percent at all.
the abrams round combined with its 5 second reload puts it even ahead of the 2a7 for firepower.
it also has incredibly responsive mobility and if used right good turret armour, more than can be said for more than literally half the MBTs in game.

Funny you’re one of the players whos been here for so long, yet, you firmly believe in russian bias, when you only have one russian tank and even with that dont even have a 2.0 KD and seeing as its literally youre only russian vehicle it also shows you are a 1 death leaver, no one has over 400 backups for one vehicle. which further pads stats. (seeing as you said this “I don’t feel the need to check stats especially when I know im better than 99% of you even though i play much worse vehicles”
compare the T80UM2 to the abrams which you overall are far more efficient with?

Also to touch on that point, you have not played japan, isreal, china, britain or even sweden ground, so no you havent even played what are considered the worst tanks in the game (CR2s are abysmally difficult to do well with unless squaded up even then its a slog.)

so yeah mate, sit down, youve barely actually played any other nation outwith germany, italy and the USA and i think france.

[An_Pigeon]

While im laughing, tbis is where the discussion has went again, mindless insults cause he just wants to argue.

I want to see the vehicles that need fixed, fixed, not continuous buffs to america and the abrams.
Theyve got the best light. And now a premium one, best cas and average spaa.
Why does this tree constantly keep getting attention while trees like japan are empty wt top tier

[jspene]

I love the term “bias apologists” as if Gaijin is going around executing non-Russia mains and we are here gaslighting them into thinking it isn’t happening…

[Selasco]

ill not touch US until gaijin find a way to fix it, but US players really dont help the situation:

Spoiler