I often spawn SPAA after my first tank death in top tier. But many maps have way too open spawns that allow for literally no good placement of vehicles apart from just spreading them as far apart as possible.
Take for example sands of sinai or carpathians. Where do you put your vehicles? I tried hiding them on carpathians and any good spots were out of bounds.
The only map I had any luck with hiding was vargo port on the north spawn.
I think my favorite is when i play the IRST and get Advance to the Rhine.
Yeah urban maps work in this regard quite well. But many many maps are just not feasible. Of the top of my head: Fire arc, Volokolamsk, Mozdok, sands of Sinai, red desert, Tunisia, Fields of Poland/Eastern Europe, Fulda, test site whatever…
Im going to have to put the testing for @Necronomica 's strat on hold for the day. Getting late and the only heli that has popped up so far was an alouette…
damn thats a good idea. I never thought about setting these shortcuts, always used the menu. thx for the tip. BTW i met you in a match not too long ago and u whooped my ass ;-) still mad. kinda :-D
You must have activated boosters bro today I had so many bad matches
Probably^^
Hope for good luck or misplay from the enemy.
It’s been like that for years when it comes to AA gameplay.
Hearing stuff like this makes me glad I’m staying down in the 3.3-5.7 BR ranges …
Sorta, yeah.
As far as i can remember back, a strong cas plane operated by a high skilled pilot was always very hard to down in spaa. mig 27, a10s and whatnot, cant remember the exact timeline. It just feels like in the past that was (sort of) offset by the need for the pilots to get closer to get tracking locks on their tv guided ordinance, lack of ordinance, its efficiency (mavericks still performing like crazy in comparison to anything else /s), bad tracking pods and planes losing lots of energy dodging spaa.
And as for helis only the uht with pars (of which we all know the downsides and the downsides of the platform itself: no gun, just stingers, slow and unreliable pars, defenseless vs strafing from planes etc). Maybe the ka52/ka50 situation when they were able to create an iron dome around them by ripple firing vikhrs and dumb rockets to explode the two missiles of the spaa systems trying to down them get close.
But now you only have more nimble, more powerful planes (as in twr, ability to pull and dodge missiles) more and better ordinance so you can play safer and dont have to climb above radar coverage (which is basically also not possible anymore with some systems having 80 ° elevation), still can be very strong if executed at the right moment.
What im getting at with all that yapping (i think) is that i cant remember a situaation where like 6 nations had helis available that were almost invincible while being able to send f&f missiles basically anywhere to the ground battlefield, while being able to fire those almost from such a distance that they get aa coverage from airfield aa on some maps. (no tracking lock from there but still…with the speed of lmurs and jagms those are very deadly on many maps even when fired from 10 km) IF ONLY you stay low or close to 60 m alt so you have enough time to dive back down. Simply doing this whenever you get a maws missile launch warning makes you completely invincible to every single top tier spaa bar the IRIS-T and other IRIS-T or aim9x platforms which still hit on rare occasions.
Keep distance (resulting in more time to dive down and enough time to react to saclos spaa), stay low, close to hard terrain cover or magic 60 m boundary and you are completely safe from any threat from the ground battlefield. And thats a problem.
If you now and keep an eye open for planes and your rwr, realize at what point one of them might be going for you and what kind of threat it is, then you can play so safe that the only chance of really putting you in danger without the risk of getting shot yourself is a jet with brimstones or a jet with other types of laser/tv guided agms. And those cost more sp than your heli. so in the later stages of a match an appearance of any of those gets more and more unlikely. The longer you survive in your heli, the safer you are.
What a horrible, horrible post. "Hey, these missiles that should be immune but aren’t are at fault and you can still fire at his munition for some SL/RP before he kills you. And if you have some other SPAAs with you they can do the same and then you all get destroyed by LMURs but someone else will be destroyed first!
How is my post horrible?
That is just the nature of the “Rock, Paper, Scissors” matchups that inevitably happens.
You can’t have a vehicle that is awesome at beating every other vehicle it encounters.
i think what he and myself in my post are getting at is that there is no ground vehicle anymore that is even good, let alone awesome at beating helis. They can keep too much distance from saclos spaa while still being insanely effective and the newest multi vehicle spaas are as unreliable as possible in “countering” them or even their ordinance. While also being just a sp pinata in lots of cases due to map design not allowing them to move anywhere to even hide, efficiency limited to only a part of the aerial threats and even vs those its not exactly outstanding (the threat to medium to long range fixed wing cas is also very situational and not stronger than any pantsir or ITO was in the past) which clearly shows in the sub 1:1 kd of the BUK, which doesnt even face kh38s (that much) or LMURS. The rock-paper-scissors analogy is broken at the moment. Because there is no paper for the rock anymore.
I mean firing at anything thats closer than about 4 km in the newly added type 03 for japan is just a waste of missiles while telling everyone where your launchers are. is not firing at a heli thats spamming 16 jagms across the whole battlefield an option even if you know you cant hit him? Its not like you can hide anywhere and be completely sure that at least yourself or your launchers wont get hit by a lmur salvo (jagms are a bit mor likely to smack into a building or rock youre sitting behind)
If there is one, rather simple rule you have to follow to be almost immune to each and every newly added new top tier/multi vehicle SPAA which is applicable EVEN WHILE having line of sight and being able to fire at them and the rest of the ground battlefield thats a bit much don’t you think.
And im not even arguing from a standpoint of “mwaa mwaa cas so bad i wanna play my tanks” I mained top tier helis as cas in multiple tech trees ever since they got released, im playing Mi28nm, us ah64 e, french ah64e, Tiger UHT and HAD2 ive got the whole french, german, russian, us, swedish and almost the whole gb heli tech tree researched. I love heli gameplay and liked it ever since they added helis (yes, even the heli ec pvp, that was my favorite gamemode despite grinding all those tech trees free to play and without premium helis back then). But it is really a bit overtuned at the moment
Having a top tier 12.7 SPAA which can’t destroy a top tier 13.0 Mi-28NM is an amazing experience
Yeah, I just knew Gaijin wouldn’t let AAs be that powerful after the addition of new AAs.
Soon enough, they’ve added LDIRCM and new, improved IR missiles to several nations and once again tipped the scale towards CAS.
It was really suspicious how we got much better AAs all the while planes didn’t receive any upgrades to their anti-ground arsenal. Looks like planes and helicopters are changing hands to who’s going to dominate next.
Yeah
thats a good point. Its sort of reflected in the sp costs (For downing one heli its worth spawning what? almost 10 spaa multi vehicles?). Doesnt help though that he can get multiple kills of important players all across the map even if you manage to shoot him down basically immediately after he pops up, even if hes completely careless and just climbs 8 km out.
Being almost invincible while maintaining full sight of the whole battlefield by just hovering (towards radar guided spaa), notching and chaffing or even worse being somewhat stationary in multipath height even for 1000 sp would be broken.
The LDIRCM effectiveness as well as radar lock to doppler return from their blades and multipath interaction (efficiency of radar/fox 3 missile spaa) needs to be reworked/tuned urgently to make this somehow work again.
Nowadays with helicopters regularly having a dozen missiles (or more) at their disposal it’s so easy to overwhelm the AA and make them work hard to intercept even the first volley in time.
Currently, against smart helicopter players your only play is to gather as much RP/SL as possible from shooting down missiles before you run out of ammo, as killing the helicopter itself is out of the question a lot of the times.
It needs, but I won’t think we’re getting any of that before planes can catch up and take the “CAS throne” back again. It might never happen either, as you just need to look at how badly early IR SAMs perform against helicopters at their tiers, with them not even being able to lock them up in the first place lol.
Because in your example the Scissor, (Mi28NM) isn’t just cutting Paper (Tanks, IFV, etc) with a magic missile that doesn’t work the way it does ingame. It also cuts Rock (SPAA), to the point your advice is to "accept death and try to hide behind other rocks for as long as possible because the Scissor (MI28NM) was given a magic shield (DIRCM that doesn’t work the way it does in game) to just ignore Rocks whom were turned into talcum (by artificially restricting their missiles and locks) to allow the Scissor (MI28NM) to casually cut them.
They are bussy grinding money from premium players
All this difficulty with destroying helicopters with ARH and new SAMs (except for the IR ones, rip) would go away if helicopters actually had a proper radar signature when flying. Instead of the magical stealth rotor that has no return, they would have a constant pulse doppler shifted (from any angle) return that very obviously gives an excellent target for ARH missiles.