I want to open a discussion on whether NATO trees, particularly the US, have a viable answer to the Pantsir-SM-SV when it comes to anti-munitions defense and saturation strikes.
Right now, single-vehicle platforms like the Pantsir-SM-SV dominate the anti-munitions meta because they pack quad-mounted TKB-1055 interceptors alongside dual autocannons. They carry enough missile volume to wipe out an entire incoming salvo of guided bombs or ATGMs and still retain plenty of ordnance to engage the launching aircraft.
On the US side, current options fail to address this gap:
- Multi-vehicle SAMs (NASAMS, CLAWS): While effective against long-range air threats, off-board multi-vehicle SAMs are clunky for close-in anti-munition defense in War Thunder. Using top-tier SAMs to shoot down individual incoming PGMs leaves you static, exposed, and quickly out of ammo.
- US ADATS (Bradley): While it features a secondary 25mm Bushmaster autocannon and 8 ready-to-fire MIM-146 missiles, it is capped at 8 total rounds with no reload. Furthermore, the 25mm cannon mechanically restricts optics elevation to 59 degrees, even though the missiles can elevate to 85 degrees. If an Su-34 dumps four to six Kh-38MTs at a high angle, you have to burn almost your entire missile loadout just to survive a single pass.
The core issue stems from doctrine: US doctrine relied on integrated networked air defense, whereas Soviet and Russian doctrine favored single-vehicle super-SPAAGs. Because paper concepts like the M1 AGDS were never physically prototyped, they face major hurdles under Gaijin’s vehicle addition rules.
How can Gaijin bridge this capability gap? Since single-vehicle platforms handle anti-munition duty better than long-range SAMs, what physically prototyped platforms (like M-SHORAD variants or Skyranger 30/35 on Boxer or Leopard chassis) or mechanics (such as automated CIWS radar targeting or off-board radar links) could give NATO a functional counter to heavy saturation strikes?
4 Likes
I would also like to say this is not a us suffers post its universal for all nato countrys its also not faction bias its a major doctrine problem for how the game works single veichles are inherently better for anti munitions
7 Likes
Short answer: no.
Being able to delete incoming munitions is good, however the claim that “retain plenty of ordnance to engage the launching aircraft” is false.
I, as a Pantsir SM-SV player will mostly prioritise cancelling out munitions because there’s so many of them and maybe if I intend to take out a helicopter (or jet, if I’m lucky) I’ll keep 2-4 95Ya6M missiles just in case.
Right, and there isn’t much (if any) to address said gap for NATO, hence the doctrinal focus on air power.
It’s just a case of a nation and others prioritising different things. Can’t change that 🤝
1 Like
I can agree its all about nations prioritizing different things but gaijin doesnt help when the game itself is catering to single veichle sams when it comes to anti munitions be it missiles missile for no apparent reason or the radar just not finding them on the radar screen its almost impossible to intercept all munitions with a multi veichle sam
But even without a viable answer, the July stats seem to be like this:
2 Likes
Two new abrams for the US released relatively recently. If this trend continues this month, then you have an argument.
7 Likes
А3 is more solid argument than 2 more abrams
1 Like
I expect a nerf on a certain vehicle
Spoiler
adats
Well the ADATS has a notable advantage over russian SPAAs. It can fight tanks. Spawncamping is just part of the game now and an ADATS can one shot a tank (almost) while a pantsir has to use 3/4ths of its autocannon belt before maybe getting a kill, its missles aren’t any good at taking down spawncampers. I have use the ADATS before, its a good SPAA, decent radar, good AA capability, really good AT capability and for the ammo count, all SPAA get a ammo crate!
Can’t follow the win rate; there are way too much variables.
Plus, Germany clearly have the second best anti-air in game in my opinion, the IRIS-T SLM.
And if we follow the k/d, Sky Sabre have the best one of all anti-air of toptier, followed by the IRIS-T, and then the SM-SV.
What has to be done is giving toptier SAM the possibility to reject multi-pathing, since Russia has the first anti-air in game that can detonate without any issue regarding the altitude of the target (IRIS-T and Elde 98 as well, but the fuze is still an issue exploitable by heli’s and jets on very flat terrain).
I’ve done a big suggestion that is pending for a month now, it shouldn’t be long if it is accepted.
I recommend the OTOMATIC, plenty of ammo to wipe out aircraft and incoming munitions.
Combining AA capabilities with AT capabilities made it a luckluster at both. It sucks.
The IRIS-T is arguably the worst top tier SAM, as the missiles both seem to struggle intercepting munitions and you cannot engage any heclicopters with DLIRMS, as Gemini Entertainment seems to believe that these systems generate magical forcefields that are immune to 5th gen IR seekers (they are not) and saturation attacks.
2 Likes
I wouldnt say it sucks, its a good anti air overall. You could say the FlakRakRed sucks sure, but the ADATS? Nah, its alright
Type 03 and Spyder say hi
7 Likes
There isn’t really a NATO equivalent to the Pantsir SM-SV, best option rn is UAE Pantsir for Germany
As for dealing with the SM as an aircraft, only two really get viable options to use (that don’t rely on the SM being dumb), those being the Eurofighter and Gripen E with brimstones.
Honestly, SM-SV should definitely get nerfed, you have significantly more ammunition than every other SAM and have almost no weaknesses besides having to turn your turret in the direction you’re looking in.
Either nerfs to the mach 5 monster missile or adding a longer delay between missile launches, closer to what the Pantsir S1 has
1 Like
I do remember seeing a suggestion for Germany, let me try to find it, but it honestly won’t matter that much since it would be controlled by German mains
Won’t be any different from free pantsir s1 players
1 Like
Have you ever played the NASAM or Type 03 ?
IRIS-T doesn’t trigger RWR, and have the range of most SAM’s. If a jet is uncovered under 10km, it’s & almost 100% death. It is currently the only F&F air that doesn’t struggle against any aircraft at medium range, if we don’t count the mach 5 SACLOS that uses the radar range to explode.
Every ARH is getting chaff since the Doppler effect is modelled in-game, so a not moving target can’t be seen by the radar, even tho the micro-Doppler effect of the blades (Blade Flash) should make helicopter the easiest target to lock on by a radar capable of CFAR or ASLC (every fox 3 have it nowadays).
I think I’ve almost never killed any Mi-28NM or even Ah-64E, with the 4km radius of the missile lobe.
Same as for Spyder.
1 Like
