Is it too much to ask to fix US Ground top tier?

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
690

Systems and methodologies exist to account for that.

“Was interested in the problems of small samples – for example, the chemical properties of barley with small sample sizes.”

In short, all the lack of samples means is that the data doesn’t support some specific claims.

e.g. “The M1 Abrams has a global win rate of 30%.”

And to some degree limits what can be known. And so using a basic series of well established Assumptions.
for example The Data could be used, and does support the following assertion that ;

“Swedish MBT’s probably have a Higher Win rate than their US’s counterparts.”

But could not be used to derive what the true value is, only the trend.

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691

The biggest problem is actually not the turret ring but the lower mantlet.

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692

The matches are still based off of people who play that day, though, so it’s not like old stats are carrying over in the heatmap.

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693

True, they are not old, they are just incomplete, as only the matches from people who update rheir profile are counted.

Honestly, tripod said it perfectly.

694

Thats fair, I also learned that the way the Abrams’ armor is designed it should be much harder to pen in general its armor is designed in such a way so as to shatter shells on impact (much like how the upper plate should) but supposedly would be extremely hard to model (doubt)

695

its actually considered a medium tank but yea it’s basically a light tank without the mobility cause of its issues

696

In that case your aim is at fault, not the Abrams.

If you struggle to kill any T-series tank the fault really lies with the player, they’ve generally got poor survivability and around 74% of the shots I take against them result in one-hit-kills:

The Strv 122 and Leo 2A7’s are a different story however. Whether you’re in a T-80BVM, Leclerc, M1A2 or Merkava, they all struggle to deal with them.

If you genuinely require 1-5 seconds to aim, perhaps War Thunder isn’t the game for you.

Neither do the Leclercs, Merkava’s, Ariete’s, T-90M’s, T-80BVM’s, ZTZ-99A’s, VT4A1’s, Leopard 2A5’s, 2A6’s, Challenger 2’s or Challenger 3’s.
Yet all of them are performing better than M1’s, it’s almost as if the skill of the players determine the outcome of rounds.

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697

Cough cough

Almost as if they should be 12.0+ BR to represent their overwhelming superiority to everything else in the game

cough cough

Oh man what a horrible cold my bad

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698

actually T-90, T-72 and the T-80 somehow absorb APFSDS rounds (from abrams at least) with their ERA, makes no sense how or why but it does, any shot to the side its pretty much a guaranteed kill though

699

I don’t have any problems with that outside of randomly getting Gaijin’d (which happens to any tank regardless of nation).

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700

Trash players have better stats on average in the leopards than they do in the abrams by like 20-40% in some cases. Its not just the skill of the player, most of war thunder is populated with complete trash unskilled players. The difference is that the abrams is not good enough to make up for how bad the average player is. Also when this average bad player buys a 2a4can or t80ue-1 they are fighting tanks that they really dont need to learn to shoot at, abrams are pretty much insta kills no matter where you aim. Where as the abrams click bait buyer has to aim at weakspots on pretty much every tank they fight. This means that on average the abrams players are going to get mogged, which is shown in the fact that the win rates for these players and k/d stats are 20-30% lower than their german or russian counterparts. The fact is that the abrams and really all other tanks in the game besides leopards are just not good enough to compete with how broken the 2a7 and 122s are.

4 Likes
701

Indeed, the Leopard 2A7V, 2A7HU and Strv 122’s are currently the easy-mode MBT’s.

Unfortunately, high tier USA has the highest % of poor players thanks to the popularity of the M1 platform as well as the fact that the M1A1 AIM and Click-Bait are older vehicles than the T-80UE1 and Leopard 2A4M.

The latter two haven’t gone on sale yet, unlike the M1A1 Click-Bait which saw a major spike in player numbers with the latest sales.

This is just complete nonsense.

My M1’s regularly tank 11+ hits without much issue, they’ve easily got the best survivability of any MBT that doesn’t have spall liners and their armour profile is far from the worst.

You don’t genuinely believe that hits to the turret cheeks, UFP, left and right sides of the LFP are instant kills on M1’s, right?

You’d have a point if you were merely talking about the modern and up-armoured Leo 2 variants, but you’re making this as a general statement and therefore it’s just nonsensical.

M829A2 has no issues reliably penetrating and killing literally any MBT (that isn’t the aforementioned Leo 2’s) at top-tier without issues.
There’s no reason why someone would struggle to kill their opponents more in a M1A1/M1A2 than if they were in a Leclerc, Merkava, Challenger 2, 3, ZTZ-99A, T-80BVM, Ariete, T-90M, Leopard 2A6, etc. The only difference is that the average US main is just abysmal.

If Sweden or Italy were to receive a Squadron M1A2 SEP, I bet it’d have absolutely stellar stats in no-time.

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702

CAP + there is no way you could prove this.

CAP + Anecdotal NO ONE EVER SHOOTS THE TURRET CHEEKS. like what kind of argument is that.

CAP + there k/d would be the same as abrams players win rate would just be carried by the fact that its on the 122s team.

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703

I don’t get how people can shoot an Abrams so many times without killing it. Unless I’m blind firing through a smoke, it usually takes me 1 or 2 hits to kill them. 3 if I’m tired/unlucky.

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704

Its probably because hes making up bs to try to reenforce a bad opinion.

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705

Took 11 hits with only a single crew loss:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGam_opQf6s

Around 23 hits from an autocannon to the side, still survived:

(For some reason this video won’t work when put into a Spoiler tag)

14 hits taken from various vehicles including MBT’s across two spawns:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pZbNTxfvbg

7 hits from MBT’s without a single crew member lost:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxuEo1GwidE

19 hits taken before finally being knocked out:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K70dwSqeROs

And considering the fact that my M1’s are around a 5.5 - 1 K/D, you can imagine there’s countless more of such examples that I hadn’t happened to be recording at the time.

706

The lower tier M1s tend to be a bit more survivable and overall better than the higher tier Abrams because you not versing things like 2a7s and Strvs with spall liners.

2 Likes
707

the same thing alot of these people say. I’ve even had these people tell me " no one ever shoots the LFP " meanwhile the abrams can use a hill and depress the gun so the only thing that can be hit is the lfp. necrons is anti U.S and will do his best to keep the abrams nerfed.

708

i hit a 2a7 in the side a few days ago and only the loader took damage.

709

That doesn’t make any sense.

The chance of suffering damage and the limit of the damage taken when shot doesn’t magically change if your opponent has, or doesn’t have spall liners.

I’m also not showing a single clip with the 10.7 M1 Abrams here, I’m showing clips with the M1A1 that frequently fights vehicles with pretty capable APFSDS.