Is it too much to ask to fix US Ground top tier?

[_ShadowFang]

@VonMarder

you two rather belive urban legends then the data provided by the DoD.

I guess the possibility escapes you that any data can be purposely misrepresented, something you would have realized if you watch the rebuttal video, which you certainly did not. Then make this ridiculous rant:

@VonMarder

Hey if Discovery chanel tells me that the m1 is teh greatest since sliced bread and nothing comes close to it it must be true. The media and the miltaryindustrial complex would never lie to you guys.

Gajin is a russian company hence its all rusian bias to make the M1 look as bad as possible,

I never stated such a thing, saying that I use Discovery Channel as my main source of info hurts your argument more than it does mine. I do not think the Abrams is the best, I personally view the Leopard 2 due to its versatility and cost.

Also, I’m not an idiot to forget the Abrams was an oppressive tank when it first came out and stomped every single team it faced. However, Gaijin tends to milk a nation making them good money, and that will continue to be my criticism of them, not that they are originally from Russia.

@VonMarder

that guy on youtube is also a spy or just a hater,

If you do not have any idea of who Mike Sparks actually is, there is no use talking to you about it. Your ignorance about him is very telling about what sources you trust to reinforce your arguments here.

@VonMarder

I understand that your whole belive system is in question and admiting that the M1 is not that great and its actualy quite acuratly depicted would discredit you and alll you have stood for. Heck all those years defending your standpoint would be for nothing. How stupid would one feel.

What are you even talking about here? Saying the M1 wasn’t good despite its performance in the Gulf War is wild. You are the one in denial it appears.

@VonMarder

Any one saying other wise, just wants free kills, is hating america, freedom and democracy and apple pie just wants to keep you down. Its all in books. Daddy TV told me that we are the greatest of all and nobdy can stand a chance.

Whenever you’re done being a schizophrenic, maybe we can have an actual dialogue.

@VonMarder

Camon, grow up. As every one else you are beeing feed propganda. As much you want to hate that guy he still got points to make and arguments are correct, there are errors as there everywhere but not taking him or any source in consideration as mucha s you dislike it because it shakes your own belive system is childish.

And then when you realize what who Mike Sparks is and the way he tries to frame arguments, you’ll realize you’re backing the least reputable critic. I have discounted Mike Sparks well before you showed this video, what you think I dislike about him is completely wrong, it isn’t even about tanks in the first place. Hint: he is part of the Reformers and argued the M60 was better.

@VonMarder

I udnertsand that i post the m1 fanclub and naild a thesis to your door but has any one taken any of that infor in consideration and questiond the information presented by the media and M1 Marketing department?

The M1 as a platform is old, but far from being a bad one. In fact, most other countries’ tanks are old, Russia being one of the worst offenders of that. I’d be lying if I’m arguing to say the Abrams is the best, which I’m not. You seem to try to argue that the tank is a scam which is… an interesting reach.

[Thenighthunter]

I would say that video provides less than an grain. 95% munitions have no applications for Anti-personel. Idk unless he is saying amount in stock maybe?
As for casualty amount i would put those numbers up with the sheer number of assets deployed.
While there had been instances of tanks. Being out on their own away from the infantry there had been many instances with them there giving support. Which happened more i am not taking the time to look.

[ileaveuptiers]

I hEaRd iT oN yOuTuBe sO iT mUsT bE tRuE. The M1 looks bad because gaijin never fixed the turret ring, apfsds doesn’t shatter which the armor was made to do. They won’t even add the CORRECT ammunition that the sep and sep v2 even uses lmfao. They also have no clue what the base M1A2 or newer has for armor. They’re completely guessing stats. The only info they have other than crudely measuring a MK1 M1, is what’s out on the internet and they won’t even implement any of the info anyway. Even a Russian magazine says that the M1A2 is better than the t80 and that’s from a long time ago (before year 2000) https://step-into-the-future.ru/news/download/TiV%201998%20№07.pdf

I would believe a Russian magazine that has decades of literature before I’d believe some random nobody on youtube.

[Dinfire]

Some would love to, others prefer to continue being disingenuous and arguing every time US Ground gets brought up for APPROPRIATE fixes and actual accuracy in modeling. Sorry Surbaisse.

[Dinfire]

@VonMarder

Gajin is a russian company hence its all rusian bias to make the M1 look as bad as possible, that guy on youtube is also a spy or just a hater, worse he is crazy and mentaly unstable and what not.

This is false, VonMarder.

Stop repeating it. I’ve seen it on Tiktok and I temporarily believed it for all of about one month before I went digging.

Granted, they use Russian people in development teams, but that’s not to say they’re owned by Russia. One oligarch who happens to fit under Russia? Perhaps. But their headquarters now exists outside the nation, and they do have a couple people of international repute on the payroll.

[Dinfire]

@Necrons31467

If you’re directing this at me, I’d just like to say that I’m not insulting any other forum users here, merely a Youtuber and his (awful) videos from 14 years ago.

You and your fellow ‘leets’ on this forum have been insulting forumgoers forever and a day. Your mockery is no longer necessary nor wanted, and you actively admitted that you blocked me because I called you out on your bad behavior in the past. When you and the others can embrace the idea that US Ground does need fixes, then you get to have my respect. Until then, you’re a brick wall and disingenuous at best, maliciously culpable in toxic behavior at worse.

@ileaveuptiers

They won’t even add the CORRECT ammunition that the sep and sep v2 even uses lmfao. They also have no clue what the base M1A2 or newer has for armor.

Sadly until more people fill out complete teams at top tier with 6 or 7 crew slots, we’ll likely never win.

There’s too many one death Andys to give us an appropriate idea of whether the Abrams is correctly ‘balanced’.

[ileaveuptiers]

Gaijin can fix the Abrams overnight by just making the lower mantlet a non penetration area but I got completely ignored in the issues section. It would still allow shots to be made through the gap between the turret and hull but won’t allow stupid bounces. I know the forum guys aren’t the dev team but maybe pass a word along? I asked for some kind of feedback and I was completely ignored. Gaijin KNOWS the Abrams is broken, why won’t they implement some kind of temporary fix? The forums would be quiet.

Here’s the report.

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/HKkYw8JXaj5Y

Shots 1, 2 and 3 should NOT pen the Abrams. Shot 4 which is a clean shot should.

Hull bounce into mantlet, destroys hydraulics, kills gunner and commander, damages turret ring

Similar shot

Shot directly into mantlet, kills gunner/commander, destroys turret ring, damages hydraulics and breach

A clean shot to the Abrams

No other tank in the game has such a bad shot trap. Making the lower mantlet a NON-Pen area would immediately fix these kinds of shots.

[Admiral_LUONG]

Yeah. Abrams is Broken and i very agree with you. I had just lose 5 rounds and feel tired about it. MM always put US vs Russia + Germany (5 rounds). Their tank always shoot back even be shot first. What point to have 5s reload when Abrams player much take 1 - 5s to aim their Weak Point or they survive your shot and shoot you back. Now Merkava have 5s reload. What is SPECIAL OF ABRAMS?
To all player not even play US top tier ground and always blame click bait premium player. Abrams don’t have anything specials. It is just light tank with loud engine and always be 1 shot go home hangar. LEOPARD AND T-SERIES take 2 - 4 shot to kill. Look US ground win rate always RED

[ileaveuptiers]

It’s not even click bait players fault. The Abrams is THAT broken

[_Renzo]

@ileaveuptiers

Necros has a strange obsession posting in every topic I make. Always to bash the abrams no less.

I only really see him bash 0.7 K/D players who think that the Abrams is the worst MBT at top tier or have other stupid takes. Which is reasonable, I also get the urge to bash people who say stupid shit.

[ileaveuptiers]

I think it’s the best MBT, it’s just broken at the moment

[_Renzo]

In game at the moment it’s not even close to the 2A7s/122s, but besides those it’s easily top 10 imo.

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@Admiral_LUONG

MM always put US vs Russia + Germany

Even worse is, that the MM puts Isreal always with the US, so i have to suffer from your skill issues.

[sartt]

rebranding doesn’t change the fact of where their allegiance’s are, look at half the U.S top tier vehicles and weapons and how bad they underperform, compare that to the same russian weapons that are somehow always under tiered have longer range and have special " features " no other nation has.

Some guy on reddit brought up some russian law stating russian equipment can’t be made to look inferior to anything made by NATO or something like that, and when i look at this game, it all starts to make sense.

3BM-42 penetration the Hull of any Abrams made after 1988 is a mockery

Any Russian ATGM penetration any of the seps turrets is a joke.

[sartt]

He’s been doing this for years. At this point im starting to think he is a Russian dis-information agent.

[Dinfire]

@_Renzo

I only really see him bash 0.7 K/D players who think that the Abrams is the worst MBT at top tier or have other stupid takes. Which is reasonable, I also get the urge to bash people who say stupid shit.

I don’t buy into K/D anymore. I’ve seen players with suspiciously high K/Ds using aimbots, wallhacks, and insert “hitboxes” on TikTok, of which we had 7,000 such profiles eliminated this month alone.

Whenever someone looks at any one stat, one needs to consider everything they have, also what they’re running as far as rigs.

So many players admit they don’t even have sound turned on, and Gaijin has itself admitted this to be the case.

This is not to make the leets more leet, this is to help the average player. Not everyone can afford a high-price rig. So instead of scoffing at someone whose K/D is low, can we instead get back to the point that it’s been now over 10 months since the bug for the turret ring for the Abrams has been acknowledged, and yet still isn’t? There hasn’t even been an update. Which I would very much like from the development team at least to say where they are with this.

Unless their intent is to ‘fix’ the problem by addressing smaller autocannon rounds, which won’t help those tanks, but instead merely change the play experience for those light tanks and IFVs equipped with such.

[tripod2008]

@Dinfire

I don’t buy into K/D anymore.

fought against a unicorn a few times with at KDR of ~38.6 with the F-16AM (FR) in Arcade Air three days after its release, later rewatching the match from their perspective really made me look at how much bullshit went into maintaining said K/D.

It boiled down to practically abusing the AIM-9M, HMD and lineup cheese BR reduction on top of in air reloads and a full squad to be constantly spamming missiles at anything and everything that moves then running into friendlies / squad-mates until reloaded to then turn around and start over with them offset sufficiently so that there is basically no gap to approach the Chainsaw.

@Dinfire

this is to help the average player.

The biggest issue with the Abrams is the comparatively large penetrable zones from contemporary shells from a distance well in excess of WT’s average combat range, which significantly hampers the ability to brawl and push objectives, and the good acceleration / high top speed which allows for you to easily outrun your support or overextend and get counter-pushed, by two or more opponents or defeated in detail. This is compounded lacking map design and simplified flanking routes which does not suite the Abrams and thus the Abrams is not suited to most objectives that functionally contribute to victory

If they won’t revise the armor layout, even M829A3 w/ ERA bypass mechanics wouldn’t completely rectify the issue. (XM943 STAFF would be an interesting alternative.)

[_Renzo]

@Dinfire

I don’t buy into K/D anymore.

Yeah it shouldn’t be looked at solo, it should be combined with other things to see the full picture.

@Dinfire

So many players admit they don’t even have sound turned on, and Gaijin has itself admitted this to be the case.

If I play WT and some of my friends in the squadron are online I’ll play WT with their stream on discord open on my second screen while I also have my own music playing.

Overstimulation for the win I guess

[sartt]

Just press W into the U.S spawn.

playing warthunder on U.S is a waste of time. Just dont play U.S Top tier (youtube.com)

[_Woe]

@ileaveuptiers

It’s not even click bait players fault. The Abrams is THAT broken

@ileaveuptiers

I think it’s the best MBT, it’s just broken at the moment

Why do you guys refuse to acknowledge that people do better in MBTs that are objectively worse than the Abrams.

Should the inaccuracies of the Abrams be fixed? Yes.

Will that solve the problem entirely? Absolutely not.

A large part of the problem is skill issue(new players buying their way to top tier)

I think when that is ignored and you only look at the tank to explain poor performance it makes the Abrams seem worse than it is.

Overall I give the Abrams a 7/10 or 8/10.
Some people in this thread act like it’s the worst MBT in the game…