Is it me, or is Karelia [Conquest #2] impossible to win, or even do anything if you spawn as north spawn?

[RunaDacino]

Blue lines are north-west’s routes to useful positions.
Red lines are south-east’s routes to useful positions.
Orange is red’s sightlines from some arbitrary spots that I find can shut down blue’s ability.
Purple is the same for blue.

More red/orange and blue/purple lines could exist, but the ones shown for red - especially in comparison for blue with difficulty of terrain and distance accounted for - especially given red has overwatch of both blue routes into the high ground position - they are sufficient for communicating my point.

Recently had a match on this map with my centurion MK 3/Eland/Charioteer/Bosvark/Ratel.

Having played on this map before, I tried my damnedest to get on the hill ASAP. Some of my teammates were of the same mind and tried the same. One of our lights even managed and got slapped by enemy SPGs. By the time I reached it, there were already enemy tanks up there on the uphill climb AND shooting from the southern position as the uphill climb has no cover to the south.

Suffice to say, our attempt to advance there failed.

Respawn. Try to flank around with the Eland using the northern blue route. Well, by the time I respawned the southern team had complete overview of the entire northern route.

Respawn. Bosvark in the base, get shot apart nearly immediately.

Now, you might argue “skill issue” and sure - I’m not very good at ground RB. I’m about average, given what I saw of average score and my own usual team position.

However, is this map not horribly one-sided? If you look at the path red has to take, it is much shorter and faster for it to reach positions to shut down blue. Even the objective for red is significantly closer (and better covered) than for blue.

Conquest #2 and #3 (#3 reverses the positions of North/South - with North spawning with free high ground at north-east, and south spawns at south-west) of this map should either be significantly reworked or thrown out.

I’m surprised I had found no complaints about this map yet. Maybe because it’s rare (in my 4 days tanking, I remember getting it twice), maybe because it disappears at high BR.

I’d like to make a suggestion about this map and its Conquest #3 - either a rework request or an outright removal because while assymmetric battles can be fun - the mission design and spawn points are not designed around such and it just turns into an easy stomp.

I do not know how to word map suggestion threads well to maximize potential to actually achieve something, so I’d like to gather feedback here first and maybe ask someone with more rapport to do it instead.

[Константинович7]

I would read the final half of the text but I’m not going to,

It’s very easy to understand what’s the issue in this map by a quickly analysis on the routes you presented:

Southern spawn has more defensive positions and the time to drive from spawn to the bunker hill in the middle of the map is shorter,

In other hand; Northern spawn despite having better terrain to drive doesn’t have good defensive positions, this is easily noticeable by just looking at the spawn designs, almost no protection and the distance to critical points is higher than the other side.

Which means one team will most of the time be going on the offensive and other in defensive.

This may be a specific case scenario but, against all odds, I could win by spawning in the Northern spawn until we camp the last remaining player, I guess the main issue with the Southern bois was leaving people spawn camp in defensive positions inside their spawn area,

Specially in the East Southern part where you got a entire hill to climb and still keep a good view of both ways out the spawn and keeping outside the detection radius, on the Southern West you just hold positions in the bunker hill and will have access to a massive view of all leaving areas of this spawn.

Actually this map is a Spawn x Spawn combat, people just don’t know how to do it properly.

But even if you think the Northern still loses, I’d rather spawning there than in the Southern, you got more room to move, can make choices easily and just retreat if needed.

[Ansaraina]

@Константинович7

But even if you think the Northern still loses, I’d rather spawning there than in the Southern, you got more room to move, can make choices easily and just retreat if needed.

Second this. Would much rather play as Northern spawn. if anything it should have better win rates. It has it requires less tanks to create route denials.

Map is a Spawn x Spawn combat. VERY TRUE.

Holding spawn entry to the A road hostage. +Hull down.
Wont render my tank until firing a round, or if they bino in the direction.
cresting hill=possibly death. they can shoot you from spawn when cresting it.

Hull down. Nice sightline with Bino. Move to grass or hug the rock= you become overly exposed for no good reason. Stay on the Road. sideways, or frontal. so long as it keeps most of the tank profile hidden.

Drive down any you end up at the picture below. Rear is guarded by a small hill. So you wont be getting shot from the back.

For once they start to lose too many tanks. synergizes with the positions below.

and supports the postion above. They cant push eitheir one. Forcing the enemy team to take the long way around the mountain.

easy to acces. No real way to respond to it. Has plenty of vision, out of sight for the most part. OH and denies push to cap…

Next to the side road. plenty strong with how many angles there are to play with in the area, for both offensive and defensive posturing.

North side has a super relax state for shuting down A push originating from the main road.
plenty low ground options. and high ground ones. synergies and almost fortress like positions. 1 can hold off 3.

I cant say the same for South side ones they control hill. Pushing from there, can result in a massive reversal. they dont have as many power positions, power areas sure. but once those are saturated. thats it. :/ a lack of synergies. if everyone goes to the hill. Thats fine for north side. with the changes to sightlines from the bunkers. whitling A is much more diffult. Refer to the first image. Without the bunker, control of the hill was required to use this location. Now the position only cares about owning control of the 2 diffrent entries to the mountain. I know thier more, but im going to assume everyone knows what 2 road im talking about, being that it is a single spawn.

[Silesian_Lynx]

In your picture you forgot the left side of the map, that’s where the music plays, it’s not always the hill.

[Ansaraina]

Its easier to hold the left side of the map. With how rare players visit the area with numbers. If they do, stalling is quite easy, with the amount of viable cover and sightline control available. Address them early. post up on the hill within detection, or on either side of the 2 roads. Or even better, just let them into the center of the hill to break them apart and flank em back to spawn.
The center of the hill is a very flanky area.

I did’nt think posting images of the left side would be relevant, with players mainly funneling down the road to the cap.

[Thoth4213]

I’m a 90% position in team player in arcade. This is probably the best map in the game as is. There are plentiful fighting positions throughout along with many ways to advance/retreat allowing a variety of play styles. The map plays fairly equally to me from either side. The SW corner controls the cap, approaches to the cap and part of the hill. Its is a stronger position than the hill and both sides get there at the same time. When playing the hill, timing can be key. Whichever side gets there first has to defend an indefensible position. Just take a longer route and hit them in the side or back while they try to attack your team. I don’t see one side getting there first as an advantage since it’s easy to punish them for it from either the SW corner, or from behind.