Aces of Thunder, as described by people testing it, will not satisfy sim players.
Notably, it has simplified flight models due to “auto trim.”
This auto tim is described as more than just trimming being done immediately - it completely and utterly removes left-turning tendencies (“prop torque” and friends).
Given that a large part behind which planes I fly is the feel/fun/difficulty of not dying in them (why I enjoy Bf109s - they really want to kill you with engine power.)- simplified flight models as such are a major turn off for me.
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I would love to see it consolidated into a single experience where everyone has access to their WT vehicles in AoT but I doubt they would do that.
I understand the complaint, though I feel like this will be addressed like they’re allowing for 2D play Time will tell.
Early days yet, and I’m sure they’ll adjust things and see what works.
Remember, War Thunder was in “beta” for 3 or 4 years before it was officially “released”.
It’s quite niche, so it’ll be interesting to see how it turns out.
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In my opinion, it is just natural course of things. Modern aircraft is much more attractive than old planes.
Old planes is mostly about dogfight only, while modern aircraft are designated for wide range of tasks.
To properly fly old planes one should spend a lot of time in training. Not much players are ready for this.
This because arcade-ish SAS made modern jets too easy to fly.
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This is just your personal opinion, and cannot be stated as fact.
And without any data to backup such a statement, kinda cringey.
And I do not see it as anything “natural” either, it’s just the order the Dev has chosen to put new vehicles in the game. They had stated long ago that no supersonic planes would be in the game. And Anton himself once said that no guided missiles and that type of automated weaponry would ever be in the game.
Yet here we are . . their reasoning at the time was because it would not add anything to game play. This too is also debatable.
I mean all the modern stuff looks cool and goes fast(faster is not better, it’s just faster is all) but as far as game play . . . the majority of it at top tier is literally done by the computer/game programming & keybind set ups made before any match has even started. BVR is all pretty much automated, a lot of RNG and seems like far less skill required than actually “flying” your pixel plane around(as much as that can be called flying . . .lol) getting your enemy lined up/on target and actually shooting them down with your guns.
That’s just my opinion and the reason I play lower tiers/BRs and fly in AB.
I like a faster pace and more constant action and controlling what’s going on more than relying on the game to do stuff for me. I like dogfighting . .
You can’t really do that with guided missiles. It doesn’t even seem to be who has the best skills up there, but more who has the best weapons is going to win a vast majority of the time. That’s just not my style personally.
But it is there for those that enjoy it and that’s cool.
But it is the “carrot on the stick”, not the “natural order” of things.
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you dont own any top tier vehicles, why are you commenting on the gameplay if youve never tried it?
I dont own top tier jets either and I dont make blanket statements about something I dont understand.
So is your massive wall of text rambling about something you havent done.
poetic.
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I have tried flying jets in simulator mode. (this thread is about ASB)
I do not enjoy it. Engagement distances are too far out, there’s too much copy paste (Phantoms fighting Phantoms) and when you finally get into what should be a fun dance you get hit by a missile you couldn’t hope to see. Korean jets are fun on occasion I find a lobby, but usually it’s just zombers at the BRs and the balance is awful (Ariete, Saggitario 2) and the spawn-costs absurd (Horten my beloved costing 17k.)
And on top of that, flying the planes themselves is less fun. You don’t need to compensate for the incredibly powerful, overpowered gyroscope attached to your under-weight tiny suit that some people generously call a plane. And that is before we consider SAS mode.
It’s a similar issue as I cited against Aces of Thunder above, funnily enough.
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who are you even replying to dude. What the hell is this thread?
I own plenty, I have the Russian air tree completely researched. I choose not to play that stuff and I listed the reasons. It’s personal preference, not an indictment man, relax.
As I stated, it is there for those that enjoy it, I’m just not one of them.
Play what you like, my approval is not required. I’d have a lot more air trees finished out if I played higher tiers/BRs . . but I do not grind for vehicles too much anymore. I just play what I enjoy.
And I don’t worry about what others play . . . it’s a game.
The idea should be to have fun . . . I think anyway
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A claim has been made that modern aircraft is more attractive by virtue.
A counter claim was provided.
You attacked the counter claim.
I defended the counter claim reinforcing that what I look for are absent in missile-thunder and the jets I do like (early/korean ) are rarely playable due to being abandoned (zombers) and balance issues (cost, dominant meta planes.) This means propeller planes are the best place to experience those specific things.
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But you have only about one hundred air sim battles (3/4 of time in bombers).
Sorry, but this is not enough to make a serious opinion, IMO.
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The only time I flew Sim was playing Sim tanks waaaaaay back before the “list” even came about. . . Stuka!!! . . I flew that because . … air spawn.
I still to this day cannot take off in props in Sim mode so I don’t play it.
That and the cockpit only view thing is too difficult for me.
As I stated, I am not against any mode or parts of the tech trees.
I play what I enjoy and what is fun to me . . . I also encourage others to do the same.
Maybe I should not have posted about “Sim” mode in this thread, seeing as some do not feel my opinion is valid because of what I play . . I get that.
Only reason I did is that since they are going to make Ace Thunder not strictly a VR game, I might try it out, and I have an opinion about the question posed.
I do not think that another game, especially another Gaijin game, is going to “kill” this game or the Sim mode just because it is a new game.
Many players here are “vested” in this game and most likely will not want to give up their progress to start all over in a new game.
(most likely the same reason we didn’t get more WoT players here when tanks were added, but who knows?)
And it’s not the same, Ace Thunder seems much more focused on the older planes and less on modern stuff. That ofc could and prolly will change over time.
Just as it did here.
But I do not think Ace Thunder will hurt War Thunder very much . . but we will see
not much of a counter claim, more like a wall of ramblings that have little meaning.
Exactly. This is also a natural course of things.
One peasant who never held a sword being equiped with machinegun is able to easily defeat 100 swordmasters.
Effectiveness and easy to operate is general direction in weapon development.
Can you name a game about WW2 planes that has the same sales as Ace Combat series?
I am sure you do. The question is how many of those like you.
I like dogfighting flying modern planes. Both with guns and missiles.
Meanwhile modern jet training takes years IRL, while WWII pilots trained ~3-6 months.
But devs made jets gameplay a 1-button shoot-and-forget. No flying skills needed.
AB and RB players come to sim straight to jet era and have no problems at all.
They skip that “flying” that older aircraft have.
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No surprise at all. I was talking about effectiveness and easy to operate (fly). Modern aircraft have complicated weapon to learn.
Still needed some to avoid missiles and do dogfights.
Which proves my point on easy to fly.
I wish we could have good gameplay for modern aircraft, so the ASB mode at top tier could be more popular.
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This is not an advantage, but a problem in Sim mode.
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I feel this is rather broad strokes for WW2 pilots and likely depends heavily on nation and theatre (and we need to consider accident rates. Lots of pilots died on take off/crashing from such rapid training.)
Here’s one quote I have:
Originally, c. 1939, pilots were all of good caliber. Candidates for the VVS were chosen from volunteers who had to meet a pretty strict set of requirements for both education and political reliability, including completion of a flying course with roughly 30-40 hours flight time, and then an 18 month course at the military pilots school, which included 80 hours flight in trainers, and 30 in combat aircraft (For comparison, a Luftwaffe fighter pilot would have 150-200 total hours upon deployment, so slightly more). There were also former advisors to Spain who had combat experience, which of course was useful. In 1940 though, the Defense Ministry screwed the pooch, so to speak. The course was reduced to 12 months, and instead of volunteers, candidates were screened from the draftees for the Red Army. Due to this, pilots were no longer junior lieutenants, but sergeants, upon graduation. It was believed that this would somehow improve the Air Force, but as you might expect, it destroyed pilot quality, and hurt discipline, to have draftees instead of volunteers training to be pilots. Combine this with the fact that these poor quality pilots were only just beginning to switch over to very new, very different machines in 1941, the Soviet Air Force was a total mess during Barbarossa.
It wasn’t until the beginning of 1943 that the 1940 reforms were mostly erased, although the exigencies of war meant the training course was only nine months at that point, although it would return to 12 months near the end when Russia was not quite as pressed in, with a pilot still getting 100 hours of flight time before deployment. German pilots still enjoyed a positive kills-to-loss rate through mid-1943, but by 1944, the Soviet pilots were dishing out more than they took.
Excerpt from a greater post citing the following works:
(https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2lgspr/how_did_the_soviet_air_force_develop_over_the/clus2qf/ )
Air War Over Russia by Andrew Brookes
Black Cross x Red Star: The Air War Over the Eastern Front, Volume 2: Resurgence January-June 1942 by Christer Bergstrom and Andrey Mikhailov
Stalin’s Eagles by Hans D. Seidl
La-5/7 vs. FW 190: Eastern Front 1942-45 by Dmitriy Khazanov
Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War 2: Single-Engined Fighters by by Dmitriy Khazanov and Yefim Gordon
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