IRIS-T SLM 4km Missile Seeker Change

[An_Pigeon]

@H_ngma

andem Heat warhead instead it can easily wipe a group of SPAAs.

Can do that with the mavs too bud. Easily.

@H_ngma

No one cares about the range,

so many people cry about the range dude.

@H_ngma

The big difference is that the MT is more than twice as fast as the mavericks

Well aware of that.

@H_ngma

Great so the one example you could find was from like 3 years ago.

An Pigeon:

That’s one off the top of my head dude.

@H_ngma

Great so the one example you could find was from like 3 years ago.

Was under 2 years ago you realise that?
There are posts on both the forums and reddit about 2 years ago talking about them not having auto loader modules.

Again there are more examples in there if you want me to go digging around for em.
hell the reload speed on the auto loaders has been incorrect for years alone.
R-77 was and still is useless at any longer ranges.
The mig29s were nerfed into the ground to the point their FM’s are still incorrect.
@AlvisWisla can tell you more about the FMs than I can.

Su27, Su30 recently got nerfs to their FM as well last I checked not even long ago.

@H_ngma

. Its not just because its undertiered, thats standard for premiums. Its the blatant bs like the “external” ammo that makes the situation infuriating and the complete unwillingness from Gaijin to do something about it

They already are starting to nerf and change them though the addition of them at 10.3 was ridiculous.

@H_ngma

Pleas use your eyes, the lofting character of the LMURs is so obviously correct while everyone else has years old, accepted bug reports regarding the trajectories.

Again, your “eyes” are not how the missile is seen to be performing.
As far as I’ve seen it still doesn’t perform how it’s advertised. Not that I am saying that it should but it genuinely doesn’t get correct lofting how it does IRL.

@H_ngma

he SU30SM getting engine racks for R77 for which theres is absolutely 0 proof whatsoever.

One google takes me to posts all over the internet showing it with R77s mounted at the engine nacelles, which seems right to me?

@H_ngma

ERA still being a complete joke modeling wise while western ERA is complete garbage in every regard.

Western ERA isn’t a complete joke for what it’s designed for, it doesn’t overperform like russian ERA but it’s still not supposed to be stopping APFSDS rounds.
Auto cannon fire yes, specifically I know about the STANAG protection on the CR2 kits should be far higher.

Though russian ERA isn’t that “op” either, the relic on the sides pretty much disipates and will kill or disable the tank.
unless you use a round like L23 or something daft.

@H_ngma

Turret baskets being integrated for Abrams and Leopard selectively but when something similar would have happened for russian tanks Gaijin did

They added them as a test, which can be seen to actually brought them back into the fold balance wise, You can’t even argue that as the damn leopards are still some of the best top tier MBTS, and statistically the M1A2 last I checked still had the best stats of any top tier MBT.
1.60 KD to the 2A7 1.56.

T90M 1.22 and BVM is barely 1.33.

As well as this, turret baskets will still be applied to all of those vehicles and more, the abrams series and leopard series aren’t suffering from it. At all.
T series, chinese MBTs would be completely ruined by it.

Also last I checked the FCS and such have been modelled now as well as the auto loader has more additional parts to it, so again they are still there and modelled.

@H_ngma

that. The good old stinger vs Igla situation.

the Stinger VS Igla situation from years ago , which btw there are factors of balance as well as the fact part of how the stinger operates isn’t even modelled in game which brings it do the level of IGLA.
4

@H_ngma

Russia getting their absolute best possible rounds while everyone else has to deal with decade old garbage

their best rounds are still mediocre rounds? their literally bottom half of hte rounds we have at top tiers and in most BRs, only the 3BM42 at 10.7 is a pretty strong round, even then it is still beaten by the L26, Type 1985-I , DM33 , the M322 found a near full BR lower with near 600 pen, as well as USA getting the M829A1 round at 10.3 , which is better than 3bm60 never mind 3bm42.

@H_ngma

LDIRCM on the MI28NM being so hilariously modeled that a bottom mounted emitter can somehow affect missiles through the fuselage of the heli.

Doesn’t the chinsese Z19E or whatever it is do the exact same thing?

@H_ngma

A russian Pesa radar having straight up better scan speed than every single AESA in the game.

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/D0UQng0JosZM

You mean this one? which is fixed and the captor M and such are now how they should be?

[戦車だって恋がしたい]

Can we stop debate something inappropriate here… or someone will end up on my grill…

Spoiler

[H_ngma]

@An Pigeon

Can do that with the mavs too bud. Easily.

About 100KG TNT diff tho.

@An Pigeon

Was under 2 years ago you realise that?

Yeah my bad, i checked it the first devblog i found is 14th June 2024 however youre still lying, because the Leclercs and Type 90/10s got theirs as well only the chinese didnt seem to get them.

@An Pigeon

The mig29s were nerfed into the ground to the point their FM’s are still incorrect.

Been hearing that forever, never once got a link for a thread or bug report tho, same for the flankers.

@An Pigeon

R-77 was and still is useless at any longer ranges.

Doesnt mean its wrong.

@An Pigeon

hell the reload speed on the auto loaders has been incorrect for years alone.

And they changed it the instance a “proper” source was found to the best possible value.

@An Pigeon

They already are starting to nerf and change them

Yeah they changed the upper part of the belt so destroying it disables the turret (like on any unmanned turret in every other tree) but left the lower part thats literally inside the vehicle as external lol

@An Pigeon

Again, your “eyes” are not how the missile is seen to be performing.
As far as I’ve seen it still doesn’t perform how it’s advertised. Not that I am saying that it should but it genuinely doesn’t get correct lofting how it does IRL.

You can just check the hit analysis and see that the angle is vastly higher than every other single AGM. Or this handy comment LMUR's Top Down Attack does not Exist? - #26 by HondaCivici

@An Pigeon

One google takes me to posts all over the internet showing it with R77s mounted at the engine nacelles, which seems right to me?

Not talking about the nacelle ones, i mean the ones in between the engines. The SU35 has those, there is no proof for the SU30SM tho

@An Pigeon

Western ERA isn’t a complete joke for what it’s designed for, it doesn’t overperform like russian ERA but it’s still not supposed to be stopping APFSDS rounds.

Im not talking about APFSDS, look at the difference in Chemical protection

@An Pigeon

damn leopards are still some of the best top tier MBTS, and statistically the M1A2 last I checked still had the best stats of any top tier MBT.

Doesnt matter. The simple fact that they have no problem to selectively employ something like the baskets for only 2 tanks but actively refuse and explain why they refuse to do the same for the others is plain bs.

@An Pigeon

the Stinger VS Igla situation from years ago

Years ago, not fixed, hilarious explanation by Gaijin, “If Igla formed how can be better than Igla”

@An Pigeon

their best rounds are still mediocre rounds?

Doesnt change that everyone is being held back, because the T series cant keep up

@An Pigeon

Doesn’t the chinsese Z19E or whatever it is do the exact same thing?

That one has the same LDIRCM layout as the 64E, 2 emitters on the stub wings not the single bottom mounted one of the MI28NM

@An Pigeon

You mean this one? which is fixed and the captor M and such are now how they should be?

Nope its not fixed. The Captor E now has the supposed maximum mechanical speed limit for all widths despite the narrower bands being AESA only and its still overall slower than the also partially mechanical PESA IRBIS

[H_ngma]

Eh, Gajin already reverted the change so its not like this thread serves a purpose anymore

[戦車だって恋がしたい]

Why this thread still exists??

[Flame2512]

@An Pigeon

You mean this one? which is fixed

Which is explicitly not fixed*

[H_ngma]

Dunno? Because no one bothered closing it?

[БрИт4нСкUй_П0дС0С]

@H_ngma

Doesnt change that everyone is being held back, because the T series cant keep up

Well at least Japan, UK, China, France also don’t have better rounds. So there is still zero reasons to introduce better rounds for leo and abrams when they already have best rounds in game.

[_Renzo]

@H_ngma

152kg HE warhead doesnt suffer from the terrible inconsistency that plagues Tandem Heat warhead

Ironically enough, in the sqb session I played a couple of days ago my 2A7HU tanked a hammer and 2 Kh38s with only 1 crew member death.

I also survived a direct impact from Kh38 in my M1A2T in normal RB in the weeks after the update.

Doesn’t mean the Kh38 is bad or fully inconsistent, but they do like doing funny stuff sometimes.

[H_ngma]

@__Renzo__

Doesn’t mean the Kh38 is bad or fully inconsistent, but they do like doing funny stuff sometimes.

With the current quality of damage models and server infrastructure pretty much everything does the funny from time to time but bigger warhead still generally means more consistent damage in this game

[An_Pigeon]

@H_ngma

, because the Leclercs and Type 90/10s got theirs as well only the chinese didnt seem to get them.

Sure russia got them first, I was checking the update log and wasn’t a mention of Leclerc and Japanese MBTs but could be wrong there.

@H_ngma

Been hearing that forever, never once got a link for a thread or bug report tho, same for the flankers.

One google takes you to both the bug reports showing it and countless posts showing it.
on top of that, the dev blog from when they introduced them also shows them nerfing it

One google. Mig 29 Nerf? - #10 by J_ackal
Community Bug Reporting System
MiG 29's and Su 27's flight models
Community Bug Reporting System

shall I keep going?
they literally buffed it last year aka 2025 as it was underperforming so much.

@H_ngma

Doesnt mean its wrong.

An Pigeon:

It literally is underperforming compared to it’s in real life metrics.
It’s transonic drag is far, far too high , it overbleeds energy due to the Thrust vectoring still not being modelled on it right and it loses it’s range far faster than IRL as well.
It is artificially under performing.

@H_ngma

And they changed it the instance a “proper” source was found to the best possible value.

An Pigeon:

Exactly? so everyone else has had reload buffs for years now, and this is the first actual buff russian vehicles have had?

@H_ngma

Yeah they changed the upper part of the belt so destroying it disables the turret (like on any unmanned turret in every other tree) but left the lower part thats literally inside the vehicle as external lol

Again, they’ve since stating that originally have began to change and model it in, seeing as the auto loader takes up the lower half as it too.

@H_ngma

You can just check the hit analysis and see that the angle is vastly higher than every other single AGM. Or this handy comment LMUR’s Top Down Attack does not Exist? - #26 by HondaCivici

I am not saying it isn’t lofting, i am saying it isn’t lofting how it’s manuals say it should, It still is lofting quite clearly.
Just not correctly.

@H_ngma

The SU35 has those, there is no proof for the SU30SM tho

An Pigeon:

That I’d have to agree with you on, last I checked it also was only 35 which had em. though the su30 in game is a mix as far as I’ve seen.
same as the EF2000

@H_ngma

That one has the same LDIRCM layout as the 64E, 2 emitters on the stub wings not the single bottom mounted one of the MI28NM

Hmm reckon the folks I seen chatting about it must of been at it.

@H_ngma

Nope its not fixed. The Captor E now has the supposed maximum mechanical speed limit for all widths despite the narrower bands being AESA only and its still overall slower than the also partially mechanical PESA IRBIS

Aye I went through the list of what Flame has shared and said.

@Flame2512

Which is explicitly not fixed*

Aye realised that man.

[Panter2005]

@An Pigeon

One google takes you to both the bug reports showing it and countless posts showing it.

While Flankers were underperforming and are now almost accurate (still lacking low speed performance and still overperforming at high speeds) and are a very good dogfighters now, the MiG-29, at least from my research, is actually slightly overperforming or is dead on with the charts.

I haven’t seen SEP lines chart for it irl, nor the lift boundary, only one limited to 24 degrees of AOA and sustained turn rate line. At 24 degrees of AOA it matches the chart dead on, while it’s slightly overperforming in sustained turn rate.

MiG-29 is a victim of everything else overperforming. Planes like F-15C or Su-27 are accurate or almost as good as they should be, while F-16s, F-18s and all deltacanards are overperforming.

Also I’ve heard all planes overperform at supersonic speeds by like 2x.

The problem is that deltacanards are unlikely to get nerfed and they are overperfoming the most, so nerfing other planes like F-16s or F-18s would just hurt the game. Nerfing should begin from Rafale down.

The bug reports you linked provide no evidence to their claims, that’s why all of them have been rejected. One that often reappears is about engine thrust, because in the manual it has 8300 kgf of thrust, not 6820 kgf, but it’s the thrust of an uninstalled engine. In the plane engines have what’s called a channel loss, because airflow is restricted by the intake, and it’s usually 15-20%, which checks out for the MiG-29.

[H_ngma]

@An Pigeon

but could be wrong there

Same for me, the only thing i found was a reddit post comparing the 3 on the dev

@An Pigeon

shall I keep going?
they literally buffed it last year aka 2025 as it was underperforming so much

Firstly i genuinely appreciate you actually putting up the sources, youre literally the first person to do so from what ive seen. But tbh the bug reports look not that great and Gaijin doesnt have the best track record when it comes to modeling flight models

@An Pigeon

o everyone else has had reload buffs for years now

Eh not really everyone with manual loading already had its reload times balanced against the previous reload time and now they just implemented the new ones without any balance changes so its gonna be interesting how that turns out

@An Pigeon

Again, they’ve since stating that originally have began to change and model it in, seeing as the auto loader takes up the lower half as it too.

The autoloader model is ok its just extremely infuriating that the ammo belt part between the autoloader and the belt part in the turret is specifically modeled as external despite being very clearly internal literally next to the crew. Its just a bit questionable.

@An Pigeon

I am not saying it isn’t lofting, i am saying it isn’t lofting how it’s manuals say it should, It still is lofting quite clearly.
Just not correctly.

Im almost sure that there is no manual that specifically mentions lofing for the LMUR, the thread i linked only has videos from the conflict that shall not be named and no documents mentioning lofting compared to the plethora of AGMs that have accepted reports, linked first hand documents and video proof and still do not loft.

@An Pigeon

same as the EF2000

The EFT is still pretty much the same plane, SU30SM and SU35 not so much.

[MotorolaCRO]

@An Pigeon

their best rounds are still mediocre rounds? their literally bottom half of hte rounds we have at top tiers and in most BRs, only the 3BM42 at 10.7 is a pretty strong round, even then it is still beaten by the L26, Type 1985-I , DM33 , the M322 found a near full BR lower with near 600 pen, as well as USA getting the M829A1 round at 10.3 , which is better than 3bm60 never mind 3bm42.

He’s locked in his thought that it is fair for all nations to get their best ammo just because some do.
Plenty of nations had already received their best darts, so does it mean US must get M829A4 or Germany DM73 ? I don’t think so.

2A4 is stuck with DM23.
M1 is stuck with M774.
So, why the hell Ariete gets to have DM33 at the same BR ?
Or Vickers with L26.

Preferential treatment, bias or just balance ?
Comparing things while using only a single metric in a vacuum never was a good idea.

[H_ngma]

@MotorolaCRO

He’s locked in his thought that it is fair for all nations to get their best ammo just because some do.
Plenty of nations had already received their best darts, so does it mean US must get M829A4 or Germany DM73 ? I don’t think so.

Thanks for explaining my thoughts, because thats not at all what im thinking. I am aware that ammo is throughout the game used for balancing purposes but its getting quite obvious that the reason were stuck with those rounds at top tier is pretty much only russian inability to match those ammunitions offensive and defensive. The ammo is just part of the complaint that Gaijin is actively holding back and compressing top tier just so russia has representation for every type of vehicle in the top BR bracket no matter if the equipment is actually deserving to be there