IRIS-T SLM 4km Missile Seeker Change

[An_Pigeon]

@H_ngma

Before that it was just Pantsir+KH38MT every game. Now theres at least some need for another country to really rule the skies

The Pantsir was never this oppressive but at all man.
The new radar systems and ability to whip up a little screen and just click to launch makes it even easier than pantisr.

While it was the best SPAA in the game without doubt I still don’t believe it was anywhere near as brutal as this.

@H_ngma

Thats true, some combinations become extremely toxic super quickly

An Pigeon:

Pff beyond toxic man, throw that in there with the reload buffs on the T-64/80 series of tanks it’s brutal af at top tier.
been using the chinese 12.7 (Vt4A1, VT4 , WZ1001, ZBD IFV, JH7A and j8B for cap) and it’s been games over in under 2 minutes. Like I’ve played a lot of high BR / top tier and this RN is insane. I now see more T80Us’ than I do T80BVM, or T90M lol it’s bonkers.

@AntoSA

If anything needs to be nerfed here, it’s SPAA, not CAS.

And yes - I 100% agree with the developers on this direction.

And this is only the beginning.

Neither needs nerfed nor buffed to be better than the other dude, it’s supposed to be balanced lol.

These helis as much as I’ve bickered with folks over which one is more oppressive between AH64 and MI28 , both are ridiculously strong.
The spaa @H_ngma Is correct when saying there are other trees with extremely strong SPAA, none quite stand out like the IRIS - T but the gaps not as stark as when it was Pantsir VS ADATS, for example.

@MotorolaCRO

Spawn a tank, flank to their spawn and get several free kills before getting into your aircraft.

Not how it works at all.
You know as well as I do that the teams which tend to have 2 or 3 SPAA up also tend to have total aerial superiority and you’ll get nuked long before getting to their SPAA, though nice when it does happen.

@AntoSA

everything works completely differently. You either commit to playing ground vehicles, or you focus on earning points to spawn aircraft.

Uhm, If you commit to playing the ground vehicles then you can spawn the cas dude?
I would not spawn the VT4 with the sole intention of spawning the JH7A.

@AntoSA

You can’t do everything at once, and pretending otherwise just shows a lack of real gameplay experience.

for high BR’s you certainly can do more than just focus one of those two things…

@MotorolaCRO

Yes, commit to some SP earning by clearing their spawn out of AAs.

His statement of you can’t do both is just factually wrong, if a CAS user, and I’ll speak from experience here, wants their plane.
They should focus on one or two spawns (best focusing on doing it in one) , focus one flank and cap if there are 3 caps, if not one flank and cover it.
Then when they die, spawn in a plane, heli etc whataver they feel like.

@AntoSA

To spawn my Su-39, I need roughly 900 spawn points. Add another 200 for one more tank, and that’s about 1100 points total. By the time you reach that amount, half of the match is already over.

900 for the Su-39? what?
I’m for the JH7Awith 4 KH29Ts, 2GBUs and 2 PL5s I think I got on it rn am barely 800

@AntoSA

You don’t have enough time to take a second tank, push through, and destroy the entire first enemy line. In reality, you have two clear options:

Either you plan from the start to play tanks only until victor

Not at all true.

[AntoSA]

@An Pigeon

900 for the Su-39? what?

for top 799-878 12.3-10.3

@An Pigeon

Not at all true.

For me, it usually goes one of three ways:

either I play a tank, kill enemies, and go all the way to the end until victory;

or I farm spawn points and then take CAS;

or, in the worst case, I don’t manage to farm the points, die early, and leave immediately.

[H_ngma]

@An Pigeon

The Pantsir was never this oppressive but at all man.

Maybe not in a vacuum but compared to the stuff it was facing and in tandem with the KH38MT while everyone else had to make do with laser guided munition and mavericks it was 100% more oppressive plain and simply due to both of these being from the same tech tree. Sure the SLM is a big upgrade over the other SPAAs but Germany changes teammates and needs them to get the offensive air power. russia could do both on its own.

@An Pigeon

I now see more T80Us’ than I do T80BVM, or T90M lol it’s bonkers.

The T80U was on sale, wasnt it? Probably that and people grinding for the BMPT

[An_Pigeon]

@H_ngma

Maybe not in a vacuum but compared to the stuff it was facing and in tandem with the KH38MT while everyone else had to make do with laser guided munition and mavericks it was 100% more oppressive plain and simply due to both of these being from the same tech tree.

I find what we have now substantially more oppressive across the board.
it was no where near as strong as this, plus when an actual reliable platform that had KH38s was added we had platforms which countered it extremely easily.

Spawning close air patrol was always my goto over SPAA.

@H_ngma

Sure the SLM is a big upgrade over the other SPAAs but Germany changes teammates and needs them to get the offensive air power. russia could do both on its own.

All trees have offensive air power now as well though? sweden lacks an AH64 Heli but still has great cas in the gripens and the F18s.

as of right now, in my experience so it’s not gospel / fact.
There are substantially more fixed wings and helis up on which ever side has the IRIS - T.
You can’t compare its effect with pantsir at all man, the pantsirs 20km range was extremely specific and you could easily avoid it in every single top tier platform, even harries.

The pantsir couldn’t whip up a little radar screen, launch out over 16 missiles if it wanted to, re-arm, and do it all again without even having to identify a target properly.

@H_ngma

and needs them to get the offensive air power.

Germany may not be as good as say USA or USSR for top tier cas, but it’s not hugely lacking either. You’ve got the F18 there, the tornado (which granted is the worst of the bunch) and the 2 eurofighters, which granted don’t have fire and forget but I’ve seen even them get kills with GPS guided bombs now.

@H_ngma

The T80U was on sale, wasnt it? Probably that and people grinding for the BMPT

The T80U-E1 was yeah, but I am also seeing swarms of the T80U, the reload buff will generally make folks gravitate to it as it now has an okay dart with the fastest reload of any russian MBT.
Technically it’ll out do the BVM now firepower wise as the 3BM46 isn’t that much worse than 3BM60.

[H_ngma]

@An Pigeon

I find what we have now substantially more oppressive across the board.

Yeah but the oppressiveness is across the board and not just concentrated in one tech tree.

@An Pigeon

Spawning close air patrol was always my goto over SPAA.

That should arguably be even better now with the SP changes to pure AA loadouts and the new planes that can fulfill both roles simultaneously.

@An Pigeon

Germany may not be as good as say USA or USSR for top tier cas, but it’s not hugely lacking either.

Thats kinda my point. No one is hugely lacking anymore. In the past it was hydrogen bomb KH38MT vs coughin maverick baby. Now we have SPICEs, Hammers and even non russian MTs so while CAS is more oppressive overall everyone can theoretically opress compared to the past.

@An Pigeon

which granted don’t have fire and forget

They do now, SPICE 250s might not be the best FnF but they work
What im trying to say is that the lack of LDIRCM Helis and S tier CAS makes germany on its own less oppressive. Sure if they get paired with russia then stuff gets ugly but they are not the jack of all air war trades russia was in the past which is probably why there are less general complaints about the SLM.

@An Pigeon

The T80U-E1 was yeah, but I am also seeing swarms of the T80U, the reload buff will generally make folks gravitate to it as it now has an okay dart with the fastest reload of any russian MBT.

True i already supressed any thought about the reload buff and just took a quick peek at the stats and saw that the T80U E1 was the most played vehicle in december

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@AntoSA

On top of that, you have this 20-second respaun window, where players deliberately respaun SPAA to wipe out all aircraft as fast as possible within those 20 seconds, abusing respaun protection mechanics. The whole thing looks so ridiculous and pointless.

I don’t care about the spawn peotection, what really is ridiculous is that newly spawned AA’s don’t emmit radar signatures for your RWR for a while, but they can abaolutely kill you in that time frame.

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@An Pigeon

The Pantsir was never this oppressive but at all man.
The new radar systems and ability to whip up a little screen and just click to launch makes it even easier than pantisr.

Yea it’s way more broken than Pantsir ever was.
And with the new Typhoon germany has a very nice CAS platform to go with it as well. The old one still holds up good as well btw.
But if it’s not Russia doing it it’s fine, nothing new really.

[An_Pigeon]

@Ghost of TelAviv

what really is ridiculous is that newly spawned AA’s don’t emmit radar signatures for your RWR for a while, but they can abaolutely kill you in that time frame.

Wait really?

@Ghost of TelAviv

Yea it’s way more broken than Pantsir ever was.

Yeah pantsir was a pain in the butt. though was manageable, the IRIS - T just stomps like hell.

@Ghost of TelAviv

And with the new Typhoon germany has a very nice CAS platform to go with it as well. The old one still holds up good as well btw.

I’ve not seen many of them yet but the ones I have are doing extremely well.

@Ghost of TelAviv

But if it’s not Russia doing it it’s fine, nothing new really.

Yeah same old story mate isn’t it, I gaura
ntee you that if it was russian these forums would be exploding with threads to nerf it.

[H_ngma]

@An Pigeon

Yeah same old story mate isn’t it

If 9 out of 10 people constantly claim one smells like shit then maybe that person smells like shit and the other 9 are not just coping

[БрИт4нСкUй_П0дС0С]

@An Pigeon

You can’t compare its effect with pantsir at all man, the pantsirs 20km range was extremely specific and you could easily avoid it in every single top tier platform, even harries.

The pantsir still was the only spaa for 2 years that forced all enemy planes to change their tactics and fly close to ground. And it felt very unfair. Although iris-t is a more cancer and toxic vehicle than pantsir, at least it was released with analogues in other trees.

[An_Pigeon]

@БрИт4нСкUй_П0дС0С

The pantsir still was the only spaa for 2 years that forced all enemy planes to change their tactics and fly close to ground

Didn’t make me fly close to the ground at all?

@БрИт4нСкUй_П0дС0С

And it felt very unfair.

TBH it felt more in line with the ITO VT1 slinging platforms than IRIS T does with it’s counter parts.

@БрИт4нСкUй_П0дС0С

Although iris-t is a more cancer and toxic vehicle than pantsir, at least it was released with analogues in other trees.

Hardly, the “analogues” it released with were broken on release, and still are, most don’t function any where near as good as the IRIS T does at all.

As we said, if it was russian there would be a mob with pitch forks and torches.

@H_ngma

If 9 out of 10 people constantly claim one smells like shit then maybe that person smells like shit and the other 9 are not just coping

So, why is it when anyone speaks up about the IRIS T theres a horde of people to defend it? , there’s no where near as many folks saying IRIS T is oppressive AF or dictates matches, yet still coin up the pantsir as if it was anywhere near as good as this.

The Pantsir was irritating and again better than its counter parts, but it was not some hyper OP no fly zone in which you couldn’t get close to it.

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@An Pigeon

Wait really?

Yes, pay attention to it when you see one spawn. It’s not long, but obviously every second counts with certain AA’s.

[H_ngma]

@An Pigeon

TBH it felt more in line with the ITO VT1 slinging platforms than IRIS T does with it’s counter parts.

Double the range, vastly more speed, guns and im not even going into the stuff the non ITO countries had. The only difference with IRIS T to its competitors is that its IR guided at the end which ups the kill pressure a lot.

@An Pigeon

So, why is it when anyone speaks up about the IRIS T theres a horde of people to defend it? , there’s no where near as many folks saying IRIS T is oppressive AF or dictates matches, yet still coin up the pantsir as if it was anywhere near as good as this.

Maybe because despite what youre thinking, people feel that the IRIS T is less oppressive than the Pantsir KH38MT combo was? I dont even get what your question is here. Im saying that if players from 9 tech trees regularly complain about one and way less about each other then maybe there is actually something behind those complaints. Or why else would the russian bias crowd be so tech tree diverse while the deniers are exclusively people benefitting from it.

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@An Pigeon

The Pantsir was irritating and again better than its counter parts, but it was not some hyper OP no fly zone in which you couldn’t get close to it.

True, mostly bots complained about it when they got slammed for flying like a drone 20km out.
iTo still has the better missiles but Pantsir has the guns for close range, the range doesn’t and never has mattered.
Pantsir was still added to early back then imo, they could have gone with a buffed Tunguska.

But with IRIS, if you are in it’s death zone and dare to pop up on his excel sheet, you just die.

[WereCat888]

@Ghost of TelAviv

if you are in it’s death zone and dare to pop up on his excel sheet, you just die

The solution to not die to IRIS is staying far away (>12km), like it’s always been, pop up launch your ordonnance and dip back behind terrain preferably.
The SLM missile is slow when compared to stuff like BUK or Aster, it can take up to 10 seconds for the missile to get close enough to lock in which time you should already be gone if you’re not greedy going for tanks when there’s SPAA around that you should focus.

Keep in mind this is from my experience playing with the SLM against smart Kh carriers, NATO CAS can resort to GPS bombs to kill SLMs, it just takes a long time and nobody does it.

LDIRCM helis have an easy time to kill an SLM, except the Mi-28MN, that one’s susceptible to launches in pairs, but your LMUR or whatever Heli carried FnF can’t really get intercepted, so it’s a trade at worst if you have a brain.

People die so much because they don’t expect it, simple as. As soon as you see the IRS on the RWR you should assume there’s a missile coming, not many people do that.

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@WereCat888

The solution to not die to IRIS is staying far away (>12km), like it’s always been, pop up launch your ordonnance and dip back behind terrain preferably.

I know, but not every plane has the luxury to do so. And if one spawns in the wrong moment, well gg.

[WereCat888]

That’s always the case, i wish there was no AA so i could use my Spices to wipe battlefields but even a Pantsir will curbstomp you with how finnicky the Spices are to use (no joke sometimes i don’t bother and still go Brim only), not to mention ARH SPAA like Buk and Aster will just delete you in a microsecond because you need alt to use the Spices effectively, and even if you let some go before you die they’re slow and easily intercepted.

The only planes that can trade effectively with the SLM are Kh carriers because of a combination of the SLM missile being relatively slow and the KH being so fast.
A Kh carrier can launch all his ordonnance kill you and 5 teammates but die in the process, other planes just die or have to resort to GPS bombing or even Rocket Runs.

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

Brimstone is the way to go against Pantsir.

[Perinvisus]

Sounds like a massive skill issue tbh.

On topic. I love how this thread is mainly a bunch of Russian mains malding because they don’t have the strongest CAS/SPAA/Best Missile in game combo anymore. Instead they now ONLY have the strongest CAS and best Missiles in the KH38MT and the LMUR, and it aint even close.

It’s genuinely hilarious how they call other nation’s stuff “oppressive” because it can contest them, even though said nation still needs to team up with second nation to provide genuinely good CAS/FAF armament.

[БрИт4нСкUй_П0дС0С]

@An Pigeon

TBH it felt more in line with the ITO VT1 slinging platforms than IRIS T does with it’s counter parts.

Pantsir was strong in the first place, not because he had a 20km missile range.

But because his level of awareness was many times higher than that of other spaa. It's ability to intercept missiles were on another level and it was a huge advantage. Even now it's one of the best spaa for interception.

@An Pigeon

As we said, if it was russian there would be a mob with pitch forks and torches.

I don’t even doubt it.

@An Pigeon

So, why is it when anyone speaks up about the IRIS T theres a horde of people to defend it?

Just check any acc who defend it and it will be always german main. The standard situation for any nation, nothing unusual.

@An Pigeon

The Pantsir was irritating and again better than its counter parts, but it was not some hyper OP no fly zone in which you couldn’t get close to it.

Despite the fact that the iris-t (and honestly most of new spaa) is 38mt level of mistake it still feels more fair than pantsir. Yes, it’s super unfair vs non-ldircm heli. But just like elde, claws and etc. Yes, it’s super ez and braindead to use. But just like buk, sky sabre, nasams and etc.

For now Iris-t has the best overall stats for war thunder but its capabilities are about the same as those of its competitors. And pantsir did things that nobody else could for a pretty long time.