Double the range, vastly more speed, guns and im not even going into the stuff the non ITO countries had. The only difference with IRIS T to its competitors is that its IR guided at the end which ups the kill pressure a lot.
Maybe because despite what youre thinking, people feel that the IRIS T is less oppressive than the Pantsir KH38MT combo was? I dont even get what your question is here. Im saying that if players from 9 tech trees regularly complain about one and way less about each other then maybe there is actually something behind those complaints. Or why else would the russian bias crowd be so tech tree diverse while the deniers are exclusively people benefitting from it.
True, mostly bots complained about it when they got slammed for flying like a drone 20km out.
iTo still has the better missiles but Pantsir has the guns for close range, the range doesn’t and never has mattered.
Pantsir was still added to early back then imo, they could have gone with a buffed Tunguska.
But with IRIS, if you are in it’s death zone and dare to pop up on his excel sheet, you just die.
The solution to not die to IRIS is staying far away (>12km), like it’s always been, pop up launch your ordonnance and dip back behind terrain preferably.
The SLM missile is slow when compared to stuff like BUK or Aster, it can take up to 10 seconds for the missile to get close enough to lock in which time you should already be gone if you’re not greedy going for tanks when there’s SPAA around that you should focus.
Keep in mind this is from my experience playing with the SLM against smart Kh carriers, NATO CAS can resort to GPS bombs to kill SLMs, it just takes a long time and nobody does it.
LDIRCM helis have an easy time to kill an SLM, except the Mi-28MN, that one’s susceptible to launches in pairs, but your LMUR or whatever Heli carried FnF can’t really get intercepted, so it’s a trade at worst if you have a brain.
People die so much because they don’t expect it, simple as. As soon as you see the IRS on the RWR you should assume there’s a missile coming, not many people do that.
That’s always the case, i wish there was no AA so i could use my Spices to wipe battlefields but even a Pantsir will curbstomp you with how finnicky the Spices are to use (no joke sometimes i don’t bother and still go Brim only), not to mention ARH SPAA like Buk and Aster will just delete you in a microsecond because you need alt to use the Spices effectively, and even if you let some go before you die they’re slow and easily intercepted.
The only planes that can trade effectively with the SLM are Kh carriers because of a combination of the SLM missile being relatively slow and the KH being so fast.
A Kh carrier can launch all his ordonnance kill you and 5 teammates but die in the process, other planes just die or have to resort to GPS bombing or even Rocket Runs.
On topic. I love how this thread is mainly a bunch of Russian mains malding because they don’t have the strongest CAS/SPAA/Best Missile in game combo anymore. Instead they now ONLY have the strongest CAS and best Missiles in the KH38MT and the LMUR, and it aint even close.
It’s genuinely hilarious how they call other nation’s stuff “oppressive” because it can contest them, even though said nation still needs to team up with second nation to provide genuinely good CAS/FAF armament.
Pantsir was strong in the first place, not because he had a 20km missile range.
But because his level of awareness was many times higher than that of other spaa. It's ability to intercept missiles were on another level and it was a huge advantage. Even now it's one of the best spaa for interception.
I don’t even doubt it.
Just check any acc who defend it and it will be always german main. The standard situation for any nation, nothing unusual.
Despite the fact that the iris-t (and honestly most of new spaa) is 38mt level of mistake it still feels more fair than pantsir. Yes, it’s super unfair vs non-ldircm heli. But just like elde, claws and etc. Yes, it’s super ez and braindead to use. But just like buk, sky sabre, nasams and etc.
For now Iris-t has the best overall stats for war thunder but its capabilities are about the same as those of its competitors. And pantsir did things that nobody else could for a pretty long time.
Exactly, people sleep on Kh-38ML against SPAA. You don’t need a precise lock on with IR and make yourself vulnerable to incoming fire. Kh-38s loft so they can be launched from cover or low altitude. IRIS-T also struggles to intercept munitions, so there is that also.
The rest of the sentence is kinda important. If it was just about SPAA then yeah the gap would be oppressive but since germanys CAS is somewhat lacking compared to the current top dogs it doesnt feel as oppressive even if your SPAA is lacking. It would be a lot different if germany had S tier CAS
I mean the AESA EFT is far from the best top tier CAS jet, but pit it against the Spyder and it will be oppressive (and not in favor of the Spyder lol).
Everything is A+/S tier CAS when you have to use that garbage can of an AA.
Yeah sure but looking at how awful the spyder is id guess the matchup would be oppressive no matter the enemy SPAA/CAS combo. Its not like it would fare a lot better against a Rafale+SAMP combo
im sorry vastly more speed? the VT 1 missile travels at 1250Meters per second while pantsir is 1300, it’s not much at all.
The guns have an effective range of about 2km so if you’re in that zone then you’ve made a mistake anyways.
I made reference above to the gap between teh likes of ADATs and the pantsir was huge.
Germany still had tha flakrad, which while not great isn’t terrible either, very middling.
Sweden got ITO, china had TOR, , france had ITO as well.
Isreal and japan got left to rot though, and ITaly I wont even mention as it had OTOMATIC until now xd
Not really, there’s a lot of locked posts, and overall comments on how strong it is by players.
the vast majority of folks I see chanting “russian bias” have never used russia.
The vast majority of multi-nation players don’t believe in russian bias. Which I am and don’t believe it lol. I’ve 8 out of 10 nations at top tier for ground and air.
RN the buff to the T80 reload rate without any furhter consideration to gameplay I will say was heavy handed and ridiculous.
As well as the BMPT shows clear premium biases.
How ? if the IRIS T is nearly a full 0.6KD above the nearest platform, and has a higher winrate while the pantsir sits lower than comparable SPAA how was it more oppressive? xD
lets even look at teh BUK, before it even hit live servers there was youtubers crying russian bias, before it was even in the game properly.
If the BUK performed even half as good as the IRIS T folks would be here with pitchforks and torches.
I know man, I used to use the gripen, F16, and even the hunter F58 at top tier i had no choice
for cas, pantsir was a great SPAA, but I got shot down more to ITO, VT1 slinging platforms, the missiles were a lot harded, and still are, to dodge.
and yet the ITO Still has overall better statistics than the pantsir.
I know hwo good it was, and I am not saying it wasn’t a good SPAA, but folks make it out as if comparable SPAA from some other trees weren’t able to keep up.
The likes of japan, isreal, italy all got left in teh dust unfortunately, ADATS was about the same.
But anything which had VT1 slinging missiles actually wasn’t as bad as folks made out.
Imagine BUK performed as good as IRIS T Rn
Seems to be the standard man, I defend balance lol, I’ve got almost every tree in the game top tier ground and air bar italy and sweden.
The IRIS T is absolutely diabolical.
Yeah but all of the other SPAA you can effectively notch, out manuever the missile and orget terrain to catch it out.
IRIS - T it’s neigh on impossible to do that especially in the likes of a JH7A, or a tornado etc.
Hell there was 2 claws up the last match i played as china at 12.7 and I managed 2 full passes, 2 ground kills and an air kill in the Jh7 before they got me.
IRIS T I cannot even get to the battlefield.
Not really?
The IRIS T missiles are far better at maintaining lock, they also have the highest range last I checked but sky saber may out range it.
They absolutely annhilate what they get near as well.
Yeah checking out the spyder makes me feel like stopping at the machbet xd
The VT1 doesnt stay at that speed very long. Theres a reason for the 8km range dif in tthe statcard.
Yeah fucking peak with 2 missiles and a reload long and wonky enough to paint a picture of the KH38 thats about to vaporize you before you have the next missile ready
So what is it? Are there a lot of posts and comments or are there not?
And about 100% of the people defending russian bias are in some capacity playing it so whats your point? A consens in the general playerbase is a still consens no matter what the mythical multi nation players think.
Man you really like ignoring the second part of the combo, do you? If the Pantsir was just the Pantsir people would have said “too scared to spawn a tank CASboi?” to every complaint but inventing the KH38MT for the same tech tree that coincidentally had the only SPAA somewhat capable of dealing with it made the combo oppressive. The entire reason people complain less about the IRIS T is because germany doesnt have the CAS to truly make the combo insufferable
Firstly for the second one there is also a tt bmpt that’s busted so it’s not just a premium bias.
Secondly I’m not even talking about that when talking about Russian bias, I’m talking about stuff like the LMUR being the only agm with correct lofting for no reason. Stuff that’s completely obviously wrong and benefits only one tree
It’s not, it’s 0.42 above the Sky Sabre, which should have independent launchers like BUK and would undoubtedly be even better.
Maybe because it has guns which causes people to also use it for other stuff than AD?
The amount of people i see die to Pantsir is staggering, people spawn it when getting Spawn Camped as a last resort too. Also i don’t know if the new free spawn mechanic affects the K/D but it might.
Buk literally maintains like M3 at 30km, Aster while it loses speed like crazy has a better time to target and is just better in kinematics, i think even the new FM-3000 of the HQ11 has better kinematics, the SLM goes subsonic at 16km, max effective range is like 20km. Also its not like ARH doesn’t have advantages, you actually have a chance to kill LDIRCM Helis (except the Mi-28MN, SLM can kill that one) and intercepting munitions is easier.
So it’s not the best in terms of anything other than having an IR seeker and maneuverability, a strong base with the quirk of having an IR seeker is the reason it’s so good, considering most planes have no MAW and flaring Seeker Shutoff+FOV Shrink isn’t really practiced it’s no wonder people die in droves to it.
What holds Buk back is the size and bad radar, on forest and flat maps it shines very well tho.
the 8km range “advantage” on the pantsir missile is fabricated as well, it’ll drift that far but it wont actually be able to intercept anything which isn’t just flying in a straight line.
Did anyone say it was great? it said it was middling, it wasn’t great, it wasn’t terrible either, the ADATs for example was substantially worse.
How can there not be a lot of locked posts and overall comments saying it’s strong, in relation to it as a vehicle.
As well as no where near as many folks standing up for the clear difference in vehicles?
You realise those two can both be true yeah? the overall sentiment is that it’s oppressive, and there are lots of locked posts on it, about 9 last I checked.
Compared to pantsir though? there are but a fraction of posts, you’ve taken the two comments out of their relative contexts to try create a situation where it makes them look daft.
the second comment, is related to the mention of pantsir, in which there are literally hundreds of posts between platforms on it, purely cause it was russian.
Which is easily shown as there is no where near the same number of IRIS T posts even though it is statistically more oppressive than the pantsir.
I’m sorry do you believe in Russian Bias?
Not at all, but people massively downplay NATO cas, as if germany is on it’s own every match and not paired with and has the best air platform in the game.
the KH38s were initially added on a su25 platform, no matter how good the missile is, you can deal with that easily as a CAP plane, the pantsir was and is no where near as strong at keeping down CAP as the IRIS T is.
on top of that even when Su34 was introduced it was massive, easy to shoot down and handled like a bus.
it with pantsir wasn’t much of an issue for a player who wasn’t completely brainless.
If you die to a pantsir shooting you in spawn, you’ve went too far and it wouldn’t matter if it was an adats, a pantsir, a gepard you’d be dead.
Yet to be shot down by one, or see them doing anything, on any map.
Their KD literally shows how terrible they are mate.
Ah yes, most planes don’t have a way to detect the missile is there? so it’s a huge bonus for it mate.
Even if you realise it’s there, it’s almost impossible to get the missile off you.
