Instead of a Nuke, would the Interwar tanks BR have armored train call-ins :)))?
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Those exceptions mainly only apply to self-propelled guns. Though, a lot of them from the First World War aren’t as good as they first seem, due to information on actual First World War ammunition being polluted by ammunition that had been introduced during the interwar period. That’s a personal difficulty I encountered when trying to figure out the utter crapshow that were Russian First World War armoured cars.
@Wiggly_Armed_Man don’t mind me imma post an entire post from the old forums before the snail does the dumbest thing ever aka the total erase of the old forums.
This was thankfully passed for consideration back then. Still not in game but it would be cool.
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You still got the ammunition data? I’m currently compiling a reference document of WW1 gun cars. I’ve done Britain and am currently on France, after that I’m doing Russia and Germany. That information would save me a lot of time since and I’d be very grateful. I know how much time and effort goes in trying to weed out the good information from the bad.
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That was made in 1944, though. It isn’t an interwar design.
It’s in this thread and the results weren’t really conclusive.
Pretty much all First World War Russian cars used imported British-French guns. The only exceptions to this I’ve found were the mass-produced cannon Tryokhkolyoska (“three-wheels”/Трёхколёска) and Garford-Putilovs (Гарфорд-Путилов), and a few prototype and custom-made vehicles including Ulyatovski’s (maybe) (Улятовского), locally-modified Pierce-Arrows (Pirs-Arrou/Пирс-Арроу), and the FVD obr. 1917 g. (ФВД обр. 1917 г.) and Russo-Balt T (Руссо-Балт Т). They all used either the 76-mm obr. 1904 g. or obr. 1910 g. guns, which only had high-explosive and shrapnel projectiles. Technically, they could use HEAT ammunition too since the same cartridge was used all the way to the First World War for similar 76-mm howitzers, but none of them saw service that far. The only exception to this is the Russo-Balt T which was a ZSU/SPAAG with a 76-mm obr. 1914/15 g. gun. Another notable example of these Russian-cannon equipped armoured cars is the “Polkovnik Bezmolitvenny’j,” a White Army tractor that was created in the timeframe of the First World War, barely.
Overall, these are all the guns with their armoured cars:
-
37 S.A. mle 1918
- Lanchester (Ланчестер) (imported machine gun-equipped Lanchesters from United Kingdom, locally modified with cannon)
- “Renault” («Рено»)
- “Russo-Balt” type 1 (chassis “Russo-Balt S 24/40”) («Руссо-Балт» тип 1 (шасси «Руссо-Балт С 24/40»)
- Mannesmann-Mulag obr. 1915 g. (Маннесманн-Мулаг обр. 1915 г.)
- Mgebrov-White (Mgebrov-Uajt/Мгебров-Уайт)
- Mersedes (Мерседес)
-
37-mm O.Q.F. 1-pr. “pom-pom”
- “Russo-Balt” type 1 (chassis "Russo-Balt D) («Руссо-Балт» тип 1 (шасси «Руссо-Балт D»))
-
40-mm O.Q.F. 2-pr. Mk. II “pom-pom”
- Peerless (Pirless/Пирлесс)
-
47-mm O.Q.F. 3-pr.
- Mannesmann-Mulag obr. 1914 g. (Маннесманн-Мулаг обр. 1914 г.)
- Packard (Pakkard/Паккард)
- Renault (Reno/Рено)
-
57-mm O.Q.F. 6-pr.
- “Austin” (“Ostin”/«Остин»)
-
76-mm obr. 1904 g.
- Pierce-Arrow (Pirs-Arrou/Пирс-Арроу)
- FVD obr. 1917 g. (ФВД обр. 1917 г.)
-
76-mm obr. 1910 g.
- Ulyatovski’s (Ulyatovskogo/Улятовского)
- Three-wheeled (Tryokhkolyoska/Трёхколёска)
- Gul’kevicha (Гулькевича)
- Garford-Putilov obr. 1915 g. (Гарфорд-Путилов обр. 1915 г.)
- Garford-Putilov obr. 1916 g. (Гарфорд-Путилов обр. 1916 г.)
- Marine Garford-Putilov (Morskie Garford-Putilov/Морские Гарфорд-Путилов)
-
76-mm obr. 1914/15 g.
- Russo-Balt T (Руссо-Балт Т)
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Thanks!
Do you have more detailed stats of things like projectile weight, muzzle velocity etc.? Or just the sources and I can go look for myself? :)
I don’t, beyond what that @R_nminbiY_n was able to provide. I do know that the common 76-mm howitzer only had high-explosive and shrapnel projectiles to it. The only shrapnel projectiles in the game, the Sh-353 and the Sh-354T projectiles used by the KT-28 guns (or used to) and the L-10 guns, respectively; have a penetration of 18 mm and 31 mm. However, the obr. 1904 g. and obr. 1910 g. howitzers use an even older style of shrapnel that’s more akin to a caseshot rather than the later fragmenting high-explosive. Additionally, they have a lower velocity; the 1904 model having a 290 m/s velocity and the later 1910 model having a velocity lower than 380 m/s, compared to the 370 m/s on the KT-28 and the 560 m/s on the L-10.
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I know it wasn’t. I’m still posting it cause it would be cool to see.
Oh, I didn’t see that your comment in that thread was replying to someone else, my bad. Thanks again!
Updated the American section with an easier-to-read format, new information, and more vehicles; including:
- T7, M1, M2A1, M3, M3A1, M3A1E1, and M3A1E3 Scout Cars
- M3A1 Command Car
- T11, T11E1, T11E2, and Tucker Tiger Armored Cars
- Christie’s M1919 and M1921 Convertible Mediums, M1931 Convertible, M1921 and M1922 Amphibians, LWMGC (Christie) 75-mm and G.C.2
- CTM-3TBD, CTMS-1TB1, and MTLS-1G14 Marmon-Herrington tanks
- Iranian TH-310, TK-5, and TK-6 armored cars
I removed the T5 Combat Car and the CTL-3 and derived versions of it, since they’re only armed with cal. .30 machine guns. I also added a few missing variations of vehicles.
Redid the German section with an even easier(?)-to-read format with specific information about each vehicle. Also added a lot that my dummy brain forgot, namely:
- The Steyr and the Sd. Kfz. 222, 231 (6-Rad), 232 (6-Rad), 231 (8-Rad), 232 (8-Rad), and 233 armored cars.
- Pz. Kpfw. 38 (t) and its derivatives.
- A few other miscellaneous vehicles, including the prototypes for the Pz. Kpfw. II and the Stu. Gesch. III, the 4,7 cm tank destroyer based on the Renault R35, and the 7,5 cm Stu. K. auf Pz. Kpfw. 38 (t).
Additionally, they’ve been expanded to encompass, at least most, of the production changes and production series throughout each of the vehicles.
A few interwar-based tanks have been left out. I deliberately ignored vehicles such as the Hummel or Wespe self-propelled guns, since there is no way that they would be anywhere near rank I or below which the entire thread is about. For the same reason, the 5 cm L/60 Pz. Kpfw. III and the 7,5 cm L/43 and L/48 Pz. Kpfw. IV and Stu. Gesch. III aren’t on the list, despite being based on or directly being effectively the same superstructure as their original interwar designs.
They should differently add ww1 and interwar tanks, it will help decompress low tier of most nations by a lot and give us something new and interesting, the game game needs some refresh, and ww1 and interwar tanks would be amazing in that regard.
I totally agree on adding more interwar vehicles. I think to add WWI vehicles, it would be good to test it as an aprif fools event first before adding the WWI vehicles.
Excellent work on the research! We’ve already seen WW1 tanks added so why not?
This list isn’t up-to-date, since I shifted focus into First World War vehicles and a few combined WW1-interwar megatrees. Some of the vehicles listed here are blatantly incorrect, such as the late modification of the Renault otsu, and the listing is a hodgepodge of the older list with no detail and the later lists with brief detail.
If I redo this, I’ll just merge it with my First World War vehicles list along the same format as there.
Gaijin introducing WW1 tanks doesn’t mean much, since it was an April Fools. They probably don’t want to touch the earlier tanks yet since it would be difficult to balance, without letting it play out in live first.
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We already have many inter-war tanks.
Though I really hope Gaijin opens up a lower BR spread starting at 0.0 which could be the existing WW1 tanks. Then 0.3 and 0.7 could be used for more inter-war vehicles.
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We have late interwar tanks. Nearly all of the early 1930s tanks are absent, and the A1E1 and the char 2C bis are the only 1920s tanks. The only outliers are the I-Go Ko, which is a late 1933 model (stepped front, late model cupola, but no improved suspension or hull machine gunner-driver placement swaps introduced in the 1934 productions), the BT-5 built in 1933, the T-26-4 and the SU-5-1 which were both built in 1934, the char 2C which we have the 1930 modification of, and the strv m/31 built in 1933.
Everything else is 1935+.
M2A2 Light? Introduced in 1935. M2A4 Light? 1940. M2 Medium? 1939, only scratching into the interwar period on the technicality of the T5 Mediums finding their origins in 1936 with the first prototype being produced in 1937.
Pz. Kpfw. III Ausf. B? 1937, but we have the 1938 modifications in-game that installed smoke launchers and an improved towing cable. Ausf. E? 1939, but again the later 1939 modifications that installed smoke launchers and an observation port for the radio operator-hull machine gunner. Pz. Kpfw. IV Ausf. C? 1938 tank with the late 1939 modification in-game. Pz. Kpfw. II Ausf. C? 1938 tank with the 1941 modification in-game. Pz. Kpfw. II Ausf. F and Pz. Kpfw. IV Ausf. E? Both war-time productions. Sd. Kfz. 222? 3rd series production started in 1939, with the later 1942 modification in-game. Nb. Fz.? 1936 Krupp productions. Even the Pz. Kpfw. 35 (t) were produced in 1936, as the earliest tanks in the German tree.
BT-7? 1937. BT-7M? 1939. T-26? Also 1939. T-28? Earliest model we have is the 1936 production. T-60? War-time tank, and a 1942 production rather than the original run with lighter armor.
Britain is even worse than Germany. A13s? 1939, they hardly even qualify as interwar. Tetrarch? 1938. Daimler? War-time. Matilda II? 1937 tank, but we have the 1939 modification with the BESA instead of the original Vickers machine guns. Though, they also have the earliest tanks in the game, that being the A1E1 and the Mk. V.
Ha-Go? 1935, but we have the later 1937 model with the 7.7 mm machine guns. Ke-Ni? 1938. Chi-Ha? 1938. Ro-Go? 1935. Everything else is war-time.
Italy? M 11/39, and only barely. Nothing else. Everything else are war-time vehicles, though both the L 6/40 and the M 13/40 have links to interwar tank projects.
France? The bulk of their interwar vehicles are 1938 or 1939 modifications. R.35? We have the rare 1939 modification that rearmed the tank with the SA 38. H.39? Same thing, albeit less rare since SA 38 were prioritized for them. D2? Later 1937 productions instead of the original 1935 productions. S.35? The only tank in its original 1936 form (that isn’t also hidden) in the tree. AMC.35? 1938 tank, despite the name. AMD.35? 1937. AMR.35 ZT 3? 1938. SAu 40 and Lorraine? 1939. B1? We have the 1937 bis and the 1940 ter, we don’t have the original 1935 tank.
Strv m/38? 1939. Finnish Vickers? 1938, and the modified T-26E are from 1940.
China and Israel aren’t even worth mentioning.
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I didn’t say it was perfect, just that we do have some.
I’d love to see the A9 and A10 as the new reserve tanks. After all the recent buffs the A13 could easily go to 1.3 and the A13 Mk II could go to 1.7. The Tetrarch and the Daimler could both go up to 1.7.
Then you could have something like the Medium Mk III as a 1.0 TT and the A7E3 as a premium 1.0. I’d also love to see the Vickers Light Mk VIC as a new 1.0 though that’s certainly not interwar. Maybe even a Matilda Mk I as a 1.0, even if Gaijin adds the .50 Vickers version it’ll still be terrible but heavily armoured for the BR.
The problem with a lot of interwar vehicles is the guns. There’s a reason why the French 1.0’s was previously removed. If Gaijin add a 0.0, 0.3, 0.7 then we could fit more of them in.
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The Medium Mk III would be too weak since they share the same crappy gun as the A1E1 but with none of the flesh armor crew that makes the tank at least somewhat survivable, and which manages to be even less armored than the A1E1 to the point that rifle-caliber machine guns could have a chance to penetrate it, frontally, at point-blank range.
Though, the A7E3 would be workable due to the 2-pr. gun and it not being ridiculously slow like the A7E1 and A7E2. The Light Mk VIC should also work well since the 15 mm BESA would perform better than the cal. .50 Browning, but the cal. .50 Vickers is such a crappy heavy machine gun that the Mk V and earlier Mk VI wouldn’t work at even 1.0. In contrast, the Vickers would work on the Matilda I since that ridiculously slow tank would have 60 mm of frontal armor.
The earlier BESA-armed Guy and Humber armored cars would make good additions. While it is a popular suggestion, I don’t think any of the Boys-armed armored cars would do well, at all. The Sd. Kfz. 221 already barely performs well at 1.0 and that can penetrate more than three times what the Boys AT can.
Any addition of earlier interwar tanks would have to have the BRs bumped up by 2.0, at the minimum, to accommodate them, but would optimally be increased by 3.0 or 4.0.