VT-4 didn’t receive spall liner nor the reload buff, how is the Abrams 12.0 and VT-4 12.3?
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I mean, dudes catagorically wrong on more than one thing, just read the lists of stuff I’ve had to make.
Cause Abrams are mega handheld? the M1A1 being 11.3 is quite funny as well, it sits a full BR lower than the likes of the VT4
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Thankfully, I think that is being corrected this major
Youve tet to prve that theres is anything good about the abrams hull armor, a BT-5 can frontally KILL and abrams, not just pen, KILL IT. The oplot had this issue for what. A week? And everyone was furious about it, abrams has been like this for years now.
No, if the autoloader doesnt spall the tank is fine, even if you knock out the autoloader is still has a round
The breech doesnt cover the entire mantlet, opposed to other tanks where it does
Thats what theyve been saying since they added turret baskets, not to mention the devs have alos said the T series wont get turret baskets since the autoloaders are considered equivalents to them, which they arent in any wya similar, as t series can still return fire, while disabling a turret basket is basically a free kil
Thats… the same?
Abrams Turret ring exists, turret roof exists, the entire hull, both of them have cheek armor snd thats about it
I wonder what the abrams has…
All that matters at top tier anymore is who has an fnf heli, being able to be the only fee tanks that can survive in the hell that is mi28 spam is pretty good imo
Im not, im saying the challenger is just a slower abrams, the only abrams that are slow are the HC and the SEP V2
How os that relevant? A modern 21st century jet against mid cold war gen 3 aircraft isnt the same as comparing a poorly represented tank to modern ones with their proper equipment, to use your example its like if that said F-22 got AIM-9Bs, AIM7Cs, and the engines from a sabre and then people were complaining it be moved to 14.3
It quite literally can, go run an armor protection analysis, and the right cheek can be pretty easily penned, both can be if not angled properly
The only thing I know of that kinda does this, is if you penetrate the ammo rack’s bulkhead and the ammo explodes. Which is super rare from a turret ring / breech shot. Like 1 in 100,000
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you cannot tell the difference between the M1A2 and M1A1.
- I have stated, and shown you in the photos above that the 3BM46 can’t pen the damn M1A2.
- screenshot 1 is the 3BM46 VS the M1A2
- screenshot 2 is the 3BM60 VS the M1A2
shock horror, neither round can penetrate that nor can they pen the HC, which is due to the upgrade in armour. the HC has the same turret armour as the M1A2 more or less.
- 3bm46 VS M1A1 which it can penetrate.
so again, you are wrong in stating the 3BM46 can penetrate the damn M1A2 turret frontally.
- you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.
Just gonna leave this here.
- 3BM60 VS the Abrams frontally M1A2 Sep. same hull armour as the M1A2. There is the entire UFP that can bounce or stop 3BM60.
You should not be exposing the LFP. In which case, even when / if it is penetrated there is an entire RNG based system around the turret ring, as well as other modules on how much they soak / spall
Got a source for that other thant trust me bro?
- leclerc can also be penned and killed by rank 1s.
- CR2 the same LFP can be penetrated by the short 75mms.
- ariete the same.
It quite certainly isn’t fine.
Your arguments seem based around your experience of not being able to take out specifically russian vehicles?
if you aim for the turret ring, drivers view port, LFP if visible then you will almost always one tap it.
Again unless RNG dictates that spall isn’t generated, but the abrams turret, leopard turret as well as other modules like FCS also do this.
So again what is your point?
You’ve moved the goalpost yet again here mate
It has the exact same as any other MBT , the mantlet if you penetrate it will hit the breach, that isn’t even a debate worth having man, you’re constantly changing what you are saying to try make it seem the abrams breach weakpoint is somehow magically worse than anyone else.
- T90M the breach is narrower on both sides leaving room for “empty space” as you say.
-CR2 doesn’t even get composites on the breach as well as the same “empty space” issue that you brought up.
I’m not even gonna keep rattling through tanks like this as it is a genuine waste of a saturday evening.
You are now clutching at so many straws that you want to claim the abrams breach is somehow worse than the rest , even when it has Composites and B the breach fills the gap.
Unless someone can fire clean past it, same as the T90, T80, Ariete, leclerc, Challanger, etc etc which means its the same as every other top tier the breach is purposefully left that way for a weak point.
I mean they were about to roll them out for china and russia and realised it would be a huge nerf for them-
Which has already been rectified and they were confirmed not very long ago to be getting them.
You have an obsession with the T series as if they are somehow good. No one complained about modules being added when the auto loaders were added specifically to russian tanks.
as @Razielkaine accurately has said many times.
T series can lose their ability to reload even if the very top of the turret is shot, you can break their auto loader.
They are fairly balanced that way.
- Again you actively ignored the rest of that line.
The CR2 only has a 5 second reload aced, for four shells then it’s up to over 6 seconds Aced that means if you aren’t running an aced crew, your reload sits back at over 7 seconds. The CR2 should have 20 ish rounds in the ready rack.
CR2 also has a turret ring weak point under the breach which nukes the crew.
Can also be penetrated anywhere bar the two small sections of turret cheeks. Which are still modelled wrongly.
It’s armour doesn’t have massive holes in the middle of it at all. The abrams armour isn’t too far off being accurate, all that’s really missing is the volumetric turret ring, which wont make much of a difference, and some DU in the LFP composites, which again has already been proven that in game wont make much of a difference.
CR2 is one of the most well armoured MBT’s in the world, (BTW the abrams uses a variation of dorchester armour from the british) yet in game it has less than half of what it has IRL, which was proven by some maniac leaking the documents about it.
Not at all, have you even been playing top tier ?
The Mi28 spam? the same spam of helis which is seeing countless Z10ME’s , and apaches also slinging extremely long rang FnF missiles?
once again moving the goalposts to try make abrams seem worse than it is. The VT4A1 is substantially worse overall compared to abrams in every field bar having Gen 2 thermals and an APS:
that is it.
The Abrams isn’t that far off being correct at all mate.
You act as if it’s some super wonder weapon tank, the damn design is from the 1970s mate.
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Incorrect as hell. I load 4 heat rounds always, I took a hit last night in the ammo rack. It cooked off just fine, I lived and went to a cap to replenish
Unlike in areite, leclerc, merkava, CR2, VT4 etc etc that all pretty much pop once penned? xD
The dude thinks 3BM46 can penetrate teh M1A2 turret, which I’ve already showed., now twice 3BM60, and 3BM46 VS the M1A2 turret. neither can penetrate its turret cheeks.
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I also blame the fact that up until about 9.3 the American teams have a lot of very good equipment, usually better than others. Then it starts to even out more and then they have to try.
Premium players don’t help.
But the US is always “I need kills” and refuse to help team mates, or anything. I swear it’s like playing with a bunch of solos assigned the same color.
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I think my fav it T series that get hit in the lfp, and it somehow bounces off the floor plate which is like 20mms just to bounce into the ammo.
Like how does an 100mm plate when sloped, degrade a M829A2 enough to not allow it to pierce through a floor plate? Yet I’ve seen them go through a sprocket, and down the side of my take at nearly an 160° or higher angle.
Keep in mind that all came after the APFSDS deflection mechanic which was a buff to abrams for the most part and somehow a series nerf all the same
lol once upon a time me and a buddy were playing top tier, and he clicked the wrong lineup and walked away. He was playing a KV-1 zis 5 and scored a kill on an M1A2 SEP I was dying on the floor after that. Especially since it was a night map.
I was playing the T90M when it was fresh and scored two kills before I got disabled, and this godly KV-1 saved me XD
lol
Thats the bloody issue with them though man, I have USA top tier and the tanks are not the problem at all.
Standard issue of getting Gaijined man, I done it to a 2S38 the other night with L23, hit the very tippy top of his breach, like the little rectangle and it somehow bounced down into the tank and set the ammo off.
Flanking or getting a tanks flank always ends the same way, irregardless of the nation xD
I used to take stuff like the M22 to top tier to take out folks rushing.
Dudes just throwing stuff out there.
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lets start counting shall we
the UFP is designed to shatter APFSDS shells, which it doesnt in game and it just acts as RHA, and shot ricochet into the mantlet, leading to full crew knocks
The turret ring irl is rated for, iirc, around 1000mm of RHA equivelant, while in game that value is more around 80.
the SEP V2 uses M829A3 primarily, not M829A2, which would make it actually usable
the SEP V2 ERA is supposed to be rated for 30mm autocannon rounds, whic, in game, it doesnt protect against kinetic munition at all.
all M1A2 variants should have uparmored undersides for mine protection, especially the SEPs, which they dont, leading ot interesting one shots
The turret basket has nothing to do with turret rotation at all, the turret ring is located near the top, the basket is literally designed to protect the turret crew, it does the opposite in game
should i keep going?
have you? everyt single game ive played ever since tusk force is just nothing but but fnf helis everywhere
Turret ring, UFP doesnt shatter shells
they werenconfirmed to not get turret baskets, look in the forum for turret baskets, the devs said that autoloaders act as an equivalent, which having your FCS completely disabled vs just having one shot left isnt really even to me.
yeah
not a BT-5, but a SU-76 isnt much better
even the US 75 can do it
i want you to realize that yes, it does say it can ricochet, but since gaijin doesnt know how APFSDS works, it ricochets into the turret ring, and kills the FCS, maybe even some crew. There are some finnicky spots on the UFP that can maybe take a hit if its on a hill, but thats it, not to mention the LFP cant take any shots whatsoever
Hi, USMC Vet here. No, you are super wrong.
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The upper plate is designed to deflect APFSDS into the turret. Not shatter it lol. Nor does it stop all rounds from piercing depending on the impact angle
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The turret ting is about 80mms thick, but there is a ring in the hull that slightly adds to the armor by covering it, but it only partially covers it not fully. Meaning a 3bm42 for example would like hit enough RHA to be piercing 100mm while smaller 30mm would only be hitting 80mm if aimed right.
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The side skirts were meant for protection against very early RPGs. But were deemed ineffective against newer, and tandem charges. That’s why ERA suddenly came about which heavily weighted down the abrams.
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Pretty sure m829A3 was only introduced shortly before the unveiling of the SepV3
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Tell me how an angled piece of steel would shatter a dart.
It would ricochet, that is physics, the LFP aka the block missing the DU is designed to shatter them…
Got a source for that mate 😂😂 1000mm of RHA aye?
M82A3, L28A1, dm63 etc all wouldn’t matter they use a DU tip to improve penetration via a different method which isn’t modelled in game…
As it sits all darts from minor nations and 3bm60 all massively under perform.
Hell every dart does.
That isn’t specific to the damn abrams at all, cr2, leclerc, arietes etc all their era suffers the same…so it’s a moot point to try makw it out as if only abrams suffers that way.
Same protection which saw them blown in half in Afghanistan yeah?
The m1a2 and such didn’t have much underside protection.
You’ve no idea how a turret baskwt works.
It protects the crew by turning them with the turret.
The models are wrong for all of them, however irl if it is damaged it does affect the damn traverse.
Pretty much exclusively mate, you’ve not even got a top tier MBT yet, ive almost every tree at top tier and have been grinding with em.
The VT4s and top tier chinese mbts have holes in their composites and can be penned through the ufp.
Theres been huge uproar for ages about it.
Which means you categorically lied stating a BT5 could do it.
That isn’t even doing much bar kill the driver.
I want you to realise I’ve hundreds of games with the abrams im well aware how it ricochetes.
However not often will it ricochete directly into tbe turret ring, again unless you’re madly rushing the enemy.
Or would you rather argue with everyone
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and they should get it too, i dont know why gaijin hates NATO ERA so much but it should all be performingalot better than the deadweight it is in game
the rotating gears are where the turret meets the hull, please explain to me how shooting the bottom of the hull causes the gears, nowhere near the bottom, to suddenly just not want to work anymore
oh so the CLAWS, HSTVL, M1A1 HC, ,M1A1 AIM, none of that counts? ive played everything up to 12.7, “oh well thats not top tier” thats not top tier for the total of the last two days, i play nothing but top tier.
ERA???
are you gonna ignore that the gunner is dead, the only two crew remaining are orange, the the turret drive is also disabled
thats not even comparing apples and oranges, youre comparing different kinds of apples at that point. The point is a rank I can frontpen it
an angle of almost 80 degrees does that, extreme angles makes the effective armor extremely high, and the shell deforms
yes, but the tank still was put into service around the same time as the shell iirc,
the issue there is that the ERA is still rated for most autocannon rounds, and that there well, isnt infantry in war thunder. the SEP V2 is literally just a downgrade due to the weight of the ERA
i feel like i should also say that weve veered far off the original point of this conversation, being that the SEP V2, SEP, and M1A2 should all be the same BR. theres no difference between the three tanks whatsoever, and if anything the SEP V2 should be lower than them until it gets M829A3
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No amount of buffing will make the arietes good lol. I’ve played it, not great.
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I don’t believe SEPV2s fielded m829A3 unless you have documentation to prove otherwise.
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I don’t think any ERA in game really stopped auto cannon fire, hell, the side bag ERA on the T-80BVM, if you hit one plate, the entire bag is gone, as with other nations ERA. ERA works in a general sense in game, and is somewhat accurate, to a reasonable degree. But like I said, it’s a very “general” working ERA.
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The SEPs and the M1a2 should all at least be 12.3 and the other abrams all be 12.0, besides M1. It’s a bit silly that they left and abrams at 11.7 tbh. The only way they should leave the abrams at 11.7 is if they do a reload need on them to make them more realistic going from 5.0 secs to 5.5 secs instead, that change is vastly more realistic.
To add to my last point, they never changed the MZ autoloaders to their true 6.0 secs reload yet… which is such a double standard
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Because balance is also a thing mate.
As I said if the turret ring IRL is damaged it will and does affect turret traverse, I also stated all turret baskets RN aren’t properly modelled.
reading comprehension isn’t a strong suit here.
They aren’t MBTs
Technically should be, but due to US mains keeping it down has been under the technical term for top tier aka now 12.7
Aim isn’t top tier, it’s still got the M1A1’s weaker turret as well as worse round.
I mean technically it wasn’t top tier before, 11.7 downtiered into 10.7 a plethora, due to the fact top tier was 13.0 with the new cas that was introduced. I should know I was playing it a lot.
also taking a look at some of your replays it’s small wonder you think the abrams isn’t armoured, even the last one, you drove into the middle of an open field on your own not checking your left flank at all
What exactly are you responding too here? the VT4A1 ERA yes also has holes in it jesus man, what is so hard to grasp about that? you can UFP the VT4 or the ZTZ99s through the ERA xD
The chinese community is rather up in arms about it. reports from well over 2 years ago have still been ignored.
Turn the damn tank then? You don’t need the turret drive in a pinch situation.
that abrams would still come out of that situation alive. Providing your crew isn’t level 1
You mate, keep changing what you are saying, moving the goalposts.
first it was a BT5 now its a 76MM cannon?
Like I also said, every top tier minor nation MBT can be one tapped through more areas than the abrams by the 75MM’s lol.
Not damaged, one tapped.
It doesn’t shatter, at all, the extreme angle causes it to ricochete into the turret cheeks, as IRL the damn tanks meant to fight past 1km ranges.
Unlike in the computer game people aren’t aiming for a turret ring cause the more imminent threat is to try and damage the enemy tank as much as possible.
So then the SEPV3 which isn’t in game yet should have the round, not subsequent older vehicles.
hence why the Leopard 2a4 doesn’t get DM53 although it can fire it.
Get used to it mate, the issue for the CR2 STANAG protection level blew up years ago and that showed us that the ERA is left his way cause gaijin want it to be so.
Then all the arietes, MK4 merkavas, Challanger 2s, Leclercs VT4’s as well as the oplot shoudl all be lower than the abrams you are talking about as all of them are worse than the M1A2’s
Dude you’ve not even used the M1A2 yet, and the M1A1 HC which is pretty close you do decent with? so where is the justification to move it down?
Also when the auto loader module was introduced no one complained bar some absolute troll Russian mains.
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so youre saying the challenger is balanced now? thats a weird take after saying how poor it was compared to the abrams.
the ring, sure. The basket, no. and they arent going to fix it, ever. gaijin accepted the bug report to fix the abrams turret ring two years ago, and here we are.
the driver is dead genius, not to mention the breach is also disabled. In a real scenario usually getting the turret ring disabled means you were either shot low and the basket got hit, meaning your driver and engine are also likely dead, or you got shot in the ring, and your turret crew is dead.
M829A3 is usable on every 120mm cannon, thats the entire point of most if not all NATO rounds, being servicable with eacother, meaning the SEP V2 can fire it, and its been used on the SEP V2 in testing
when did i ever say that, ever. I said the SEP and SEP V2 should be the same BR as the M1A2, and if the M1A1 HC has the same armor, why should the M1AW be higher than the HC, theres nothing different between the two if their cheek armor is similar
thats because thats an actual weekness on the actual tank, not something gaijin made up because they felt like it, like the turret drive being all the way on the floor of the tank.
???
yes, unfortunately thats not how the game works. If gaijin wants to be unrealistic there isnt much you can do besides try and get BRs changed
whats your issue? why are you so offensive all the time, is it that hard to just discuss something