I don’t even need to check to know that this is going to happen in-game.
Here you go:
Even with added track armor.
Pretty sure that all solid shot stays intact after penetration, until the penetrator hits enough components and is stopped.
Even with added track armor.
1 Like
Who said you that?
Irl atgms blow up tanks, while in wt they do -1 crew member.
We play game, not in real life.
oof. If you are asking why an object in motion stays in motion, we might need to start at a more basic level.
The charge inside tank shells is measured in grams. The explosion is only to seperate fragments of the shell, not to act as a grenade. The shell is still moving forward when the detonation occours, causing the fragments to spread in a cone. The ‘death sphere’ we have in game is nowhere close to IRL
What do you think ATGMS are? What makes them different than HEAT shells? Propellant. Thats it. They still abide by the same mechanics as the other HEAT shells in the game, admittedly with larger explosive charge size (for some ATGMs). Your view of ATGMS from videos is largely propaganda. They stick a bunch of explosive material in a tank, fire the atgm at it, then watch as the tank explodes. It doesn’t show all the hits on an empty tank where you get the atgm detonation and nothing else.
The reasoning as to WHY nations didn’t all develop APHE shells is still relevant. If it was as good as in game, they would have. It wasn’t, so they didn’t. Rather important inflection point.
5 Likes
And not only the APHE, as soon as WW2 ended the Americans left aside the APHECBC in favor of the APBC, since with the correct thermal treatment they worked well against inclined armor and penetrated enough at 0º so they did not need a cap to protect the tip upon impact. You just have to see what bullets the M41, M46, 47 and 48, or the M103 use. Only the Soviets continued to use APHEBC and APHECBC, but for the simple reason that they were behind in bullet design.
It is clear that the explosion videos are very nice, but in any case the HEAT in general in the game are very poorly done. The damage of the HEAT depends mainly on the excess penetration after passing through the armor, so after piercing armor still has 100mm of penetration left over, that HEAT bullet would cause quite good damage, and in the same way an ATGM with 550mm of penetration would cause even greater damage to tanks. That is why HEAT projectiles in reality are usually lethal against vehicles light, since after drilling, the explosive reaction still has a lot of energy.
1 Like
If it was modeled properly like this, it’d be neat. Britain might even be good.
1 Like
The Panther’s mantlet is very wonky, it can even bounce 152mm shells.
it’s a good thing if APHE does less damage. A high time to kill is more fun than getting one-shotted all the time
1 Like
It will also emphasize our primary advertised selling point over competing tank games: having to aim for and destroy modules.
And honestly, even solid shot with its current behaviour on the 17 pounder for british tanks works very, very nicely in WW2. It won’t let you nab kills by shooting empty parts of armour or cupola or through the corner of a tank peeking out but… isn’t that a good thing?
Destroying a tank by shooting those parts makes tanks feel like they have hit points, and is counter intuitive.
And I don’t really play tanks that get cheesed by cupola shots these days, so i am not being self serving (my lineup is firefly/sherman II/avenger/object 3/spit).
Conjecture:
Even without the Sphere of Death, due to crew mechanics in Warthunder, APHE will remain superior to contemporaries.
Solid shell spalling is, from what I understand, seems to correlate with how much penetration the shell has left after impacting, and possibly its caliber (hence why 17 pounder is a joy to use, while previous british guns felt much weaker despite facing weaker armour).
APHE on the other hand produces a guaranteed cone of death regardless if you just barely penetrated or overpenetrated (perhaps given mentions of fuze timers - overpenetration where the shell can exit the tank again will cause issues).
One thing I could see Gaijin fucking up is spalling/fragments bouncing around - that is, not modelling it - so if your APHE fuse detonates next to the opposite wall of the fighting compartment rather than right after entering - it might end up doing no damage while IRL it should reflect some spalling back at the crew and injury or kill some of them (not as effectively if the fuze was activated in time, but it’s still pretty lethal).
It doesn’t, and isn’t. You’re shooting whatever you can penetrate - in real life, after any penetration the crew would be looking to bail out. It is solid shot that needs to be buffed, not APHE nerfed. Oneshots are satisfying.
1 Like
They need to rework how mantlets works. If the armor can move, it also means the armor can be stuck.
Most hits would simply jam the vertical traverse. Of course that’s not a big deal in WT since that gets repaired in like 10 seconds.
It’s really just the killing mechanic that needs to change.
We don’t need to buff or nerf rounds. We need rounds to behave in a realistic way, then change the gameplay accordingly.
I think if you have a 75mm caliber hole where your gun optic used to be, that should be sufficent to consider the tank to be destroyed.
Gaijin added more components to make it easier to disable some light vehicles but those components can still be repaired and for some reason crew can still magically teleport when the tank is moving or getting penetrated.
There should be an overkill mechanic, where destroyed internal components simply can not be repaired.
It should make no difference whether you shoot a tank with 17pdr solid shot or or 75mm Pzgr. 39.
The result is either no penetration or a destroyed vehicle, unless you merely head-shoted the M18s commander or something similiar.
Nah, never. Tanks becoming unable to move because someone shot their engine a little too hard is a horrible idea.
I seem to remember someone in this forum suggesting tank barrels not being repairable after a certain amount of damage, gonna hazard a guess that terrible idea was also yours.
As above, absolutely not. You complained about APHE being shot into cupolas but this would be no different - one shot and the entire tank is out instead of just the turret crew. Even if a poorly aimed shot would pass through an empty area doing no damage, your ‘system’ would consider it destroyed.
1 Like
What are you talking about?
9/10 times a tank dies to an APHE round in one shot but you shoot someone’s engine and that’s too harsh?
In which world?
If someone makes a mistake and sends a shot into my engine, I can actually repair it and KEEP PLAYING.
If my engine is out and can’t be repaired and I’m not in a decent spot, I’m now forced to J out or be completely useless.
I bet this change will weaken most of the APHE. Based on past ammunition mechanism changes, Gaijin has been trying to reduce the damage and penetration depth of ammunition. Since the moment of unifying the formula, history and physics are no longer emphasized. I hope that Gaijin can revise the calculation of penetration depth formula. Ammunition like M358 should not behave so garbage. This problem has existed for a long time and Gaijin believes they are right
I’m just worried they’re going to make the fragmentation even worse than it is now somehow.