Most of the CAS problem is due his stupid SP low cost. Just go with a light or reserve tank, cap a zone and then die, now you have enough points for obtain a plane with bombs. I simple just give a small increase of SP for planes in GF and the CAS spam will be reduced for sure.
New record, right now for get a CAS plane the only you need is die LOL.
Right now CAS is a just wild card for most stupid and bad players can obtain easy revenge kills.
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And to stop CAS you either spawn on SPAA first or Die then spawn on SPAA, not much of a difference when dying first to get on CAS plane.
Spoiler
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This doesn’t fix anything, if you slinged a bomb 2 houses behind you and it was a 1000 kg bomb->500 pound bomb. It’s gonna kill you. Houses aren’t made of steel, they are made of bricks, stone, very thin sheets of aluminum, or just straw. Not one of these materials would be capable of absorbing the explosion nor the concussive force which often or not was what did the most damage.
I agree with this, as some of the zoom options are a bit too small. At the same time, most don’t know how to use Anti Air or even lead their shots.
Kill cams were already nerfed to the point that they don’t help.
Gaijin just needs to fix the point system, cause sometimes 1 kill->plane, other times it requires 1 kill 1 assist, or sometimes 2 kills. it’s very spurattic and inconsistent.
Last game discussion was hidden.
https://forum.warthunder.com/t/cas-is-and-will-always-be-toxic-and-a-bad-mechanic/159480/194
Oops! That page doesn’t exist or is private.
Because it was a rant/flame thread.
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Currently, CAS being balanced rests on multiple faulty assumptions:
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That there is a rock paper scissors scenario between CAS, tanks, and SPAA. There is not. CAS can kill tanks, SPAA, and other CAS. Tanks can kill other tanks and SPAA. SPAA can only really kill planes and sometimes limited effectiveness against tanks.
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That spawning SPAA is a full stop deterrent against CAS. It is not. You can still perform well as CAS even with multiple enemy anti airs up by using terrain cover or flying high in a super sonic jet.
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That SPAA and CAS are balanced against each other. You cannot use ground cover as an SPAA most of the time, CAS pretty much always knows where you are and can easily avoid you, and they also know where you are making you easy to kill. Many nations have holes in their TTs for SPAA, meaning that even if someone wants to play anti-air they might not be able to depending on the lineup.
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That if your team doesn’t spawn SPAA, that is the teams fault skill issue gg ez should have sideclimbed. Anyone who has played top tier ground knows relying on your team is like waiting for hell to freeze over.
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That playing SPAA is as fun or rewarding as CAS. If you play SPAA, you know 90% of the match is waiting for nothing to happen, and 10% is having the opportunity to shoot down a plane. You’re SOL if the CAS player knows what they’re doing, though. This goes into the “relying on your team” element, I can’t blame people for not wanting to play or grind out SPAA when they simply aren’t fun.
4 Likes
mmmm yes and no. You make it sound as if playing SPAAs are pointless. It really comes down to players knowledge and if they know how, when to engage.
None of those jets that I killed here and the Heli got the chance to CAS or drop their payload. Still a lose, but at least it was a CAS free match lol
Spoiler
And did it again lol RIP team still couldn’t hold a position let alone tank or SPAA properly.
Saved the tankers here, only 1 tanker died to CAS out of the 6 i shot down in the image below.
EDIT: Also a perfect example of why CAS is sometimes needed. Can skip to where I used to R2Y2 to provide air support for my team and allow them to get to B. I tried. Enemy team were starting to spawn camp and i stopped them.
https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/252770215623008266
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I think balancing air in ground RB is matter of better integrating aircraft into the game mode. The primary “problem areas” of CAS in ground seem to be revenge-killing and giant-bomb abuse, as well as planes that just endlessly fly tight loops over the battlefield, strafing again and again because no enemy fighters are there to punish them for such irresponsible flying. To that end, I would:
- Remove all airspawns
- Remove the close-in helipads
- Move airfields farther back
- All aircraft (helis included) spawn at airfield and on the ground
- Add AI AA behind ground spawns (in areas untargetable by ground vehicles)
- Add additional AI AA around the larger “air” portion of the map, on each faction’s “side”
- Reduce the spawn cost of fighters with air-to-air loadouts, possibly to the point of allowing them to first spawn
- Tier player SPAA against the era of aircraft they’ll be facing
- Give SPAA an RP/SL bonus the option of applying their RP towards Air research
As it is, ground RB honestly has the best RB aircraft experience, because it’s the only option that’s objective-focused, instead of just “deathmatch in planes.” This is a opportunity that can be capitalized on to the benefit of ground RB players: The game mode should try to lure fighter / interceptor players to ground RB matches to provide air cover for their teams by flying CAP and interceptions. The sky should be it’s own battlefield, and CAS runs should be a quick in-and-out affair. Complete air supremacy (and the irresponsible flying of abusive CAS that comes with it) should be akin to spawnpushing - something that really (should) only happen once the game is already won or lost.
An idea just hit me, you know how bombers and naval have an option to toggle Ai gunners to shoot automatically to air, why not allow it for tanks too that have a mg above them. Can allow them to toggle off and on as needed. Dunno, just an idea.
I’d just prevent helicopters equipped with ATGMs from spawning at the forward spawn. Adding several minutes of dead time to rocket helis is useless.
Only move the airfields farther back at prop Brs. You can very easily get hit by the AF AA on some maps. Atleast below 9.3, the AF distance is fine (until you are uptiered from 6.7).
Why should a helicopter spawn 20-30km away from the map? The helipad distances are only an issue when you can launch ATGMs from the close one.
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CAS should be one and done. Choosing to spawn in a plane should give you one life and prevent you from spawning back in a ground vehicle.
It’s not a bad idea, but just tuning it right is the tricky bit.
CAS in naval is almost never done because AI AA is too accurate and many actually want the strength of AI AA to be reduced a bit. It could be really easy to be overtuned.
There is also the issue of whether youd actually ever want it on passively. If you were being sneaky and then your gun just started firing randomly, would be kinda annoying. Even in naval I sometimes turn it off to be “sneaky”.
It has potential, but I can see it being a bit of a tuning nightmare to be fair and maybe more annoying for most.
Gaijin announced the implementation of a construction mechanic; perhaps we could build stationary AI SAM systems with certain vehicles? Like how you can plant friendly AI peashooters and stuff in Plants Vs Zombies Garden Warfare 2. Obviously this would need a lot of balancing and tweaking, for example a way to limit it, but I think the idea is good.
It’s possible. AI AA would need a total overhaul for that. In ASB, it’s more deadly than any player. I’d contribute a majority of my deaths to them. But just being able to build decent cover would be a game changer and not to have to be conservative on ammo usage as well. I find myself not firing not because I don’t think I can hit the target, but because I’m saving ammo for when I’m far more confident
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Yeah. I have PTSD from AI Gepards on Heli PvE :’)
2 Likes
Exactly. Death spheres are not fun
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Note: Please do not do what that SPAA player just did, if he hadn’t done this, i wouldn’t notice a SPAA up and would of flown near him. So he forced me to change my flight path so I can CAS further away from him or bomb him. Plus he stayed in spawn for quite a while. Only moved after realizing he cant touch me due to his mistake giving away he’s there.
4 Likes
As a player who loves flying helis in ground RB, I would like it because it would let me first-spawn a heli with ATGMs and not be too OP.
To stop CAS early spam the only we need a small SP cost bump , thats all.
Gaijin fixed this issue long time ago but with the last SP changes for tanks the issue come back again.
This problem is like if old Normandy historical event Tiger 1 and Jagdpanther haved the same SP cost than Panzer 4 or Stugs. For balance reasons those tanks haved highers SP cost because spam early in the battle was completely unbalanced and the CAS is exactly the same, just need be higher cost.