We’d been talking about normal gameplay…with full RB GFs lineups.
You must have gotten confused…
You’re simply confused and not understanding the matter–it’s alright, as I said, it’s very cerebral and not everyone grasps it.
Analyzing all aspects of a matter doesn’t mean others are being neglected.
It’s just like with graphics: some people have to eliminate certain scenery to focus, others can function with everything in front of them.
If aircraft are not allowed to make successful attacks and/or die, the SPAAs have succeeded in their missions.
Planes spawn on the opposite direction from where the SPAA is and will be able to engage targets before ever coming near SPAA… as long as they’re not wasting time and loitering, it’s almost impossible to stop a plane from attacking. It’s only the cannon CAS that suffers.
Simply warding enemy aircraft off is enough for them to succeed in their air defense mission.
Yeah… and they get rewarded 0 RP and 0 SL for their efforts, wonder why people don’t like doing this.
That doesn’t really have any influence on what I was saying…as long as you’ve got ammo and haven’t overheated your barrels, you can use it on as many ‘customers’ as come along.
Not all SPAA has that much ammo, and you’re also dealing with reloads, Wirbelwind has a 5 second reload on a belt during which it can easily be killed if it doesn’t manage this properly.
Contraereo only gets about 1 minute worth of firing and can easily run out.
R3 also has a 9 second reload, you cannot start an engagement low on ammo.
If they’re not within a reasonable range, they’re not worth firing upon…that’s just a matter of capability, judgment and skill.
And who controls that range? The pilots, and if they stay out of range they won’t be fired upon.
we could certainly have premium SPAAs, particularly if the bogus derision of them ceased.
It’s pretty clear snail does not want SPAA to be better as they neglected them for the last decade and ignored feedback for the last decade despite a lot of changes that could have been made.
I have pointed out to You the option for people who just want to use planes in RB GFs and how eaisly they can do it. Not to even mention the advantages they get over people who want to play with full line-ups.
Not really. Just because You can spawn something two times doesn’t give You the advantage over more expensive unit.
If one needs to take into consideration SP while playing, it only means that he is having a problem in gathering enough of it before he dies.
My man has not played the lvkv 42
That is something that I will say ought to be looked into and subject to discussion/change.
With that said…if CAS posed such a thread, having defenses up to defend against that would validate that the threat exists. If people don’t even have the motivation to mount a defense…it’s doubtful it is as they say.
Indeed, all part of the ‘as long as you have ammo’ bit.
I have used the M42 recently and it isn’t quite an ‘Italian Wirbelwind’ as some might liken it.
Provided the SPAA players position themselves well, they can force the aircraft into their range if the AFs try to engage GFs.
Anti-SPAA derision certainly hasn’t helped…
That’s not what was being discussed, nor does your described manner confer an advantage onto people…being a one or two death leaver by default is a very poor approach for the team’s health.
To be honest, your methods are far likelier to damage the player’s own team than to give him any advantage…especially considering how it works out with the average players.
In terms of cost effectiveness, it unquestionably does lead to an advantage–you have to look at the math and then consider the costs such actions impose.
PM me if you need more help, don’t bloat the thread.
Incorrect…careful consideration of such matters as SP is the mark of an excellent player.
You are deeply confused if you believe thoughtful gameplay is bad…it’s exactly what you want in a teammate!
Correct–that’s set to replace my spaded L-62 as soon as my Swedes get to 4.3…I’m running through SW 4.0 currently.
Most of the people leave after first death or the second one. If You are able to destroy the best vechicle of the enemy team You are giving a huge advantage to Your own team.
It leads to the advantage if the more expensive unit is not used properly.
If I can destroy someone SPAA and he doesn’t have a back up, then I have already won. Not to mention if he spawns then in other unit (like a tank or tank destroyer) which I destroy.
Just because something works on paper doesn’t mean it works in the battle ;). Something might be more cost-effective, but it doesn’t mean that it will win because of it.
As again, no one cares about SP costs of SPAA compared to air untis when talking about the balance.
Excellent players don’t look at the SP as they don’t have to care about it.
Clearly GAB players are the best in the world then
/s
That relies on a big ‘if’ especially if you’re entering it on such shaky conditions as relying upon the enemy allowing you to pass them.
Simply playing well in the conventional manner is a more reliable bet, as even the Spookston acknowledges in his video.
There is no problem with the results of skillful use, period–they should be respected.
Beyond that, it’s absolutely possible for cost-effectiveness to determine successes and defeats…because that’s often exactly how things go. Conditions vary, but math doesn’t…and if you can kill a 480 SP vehicle with some mix of <480 SP vehicles, you’ve won the battle of cost-effectiveness.
What I spelled out before (a 1:5 or 1:2 exchange rate scenario for SPAAs) were essentially worst case scenarios for them…they’re generally far better, with even 1:1 being a favorable trade. If an SPAA player can yield 1:1 or higher, they’re batting at/above par regardless of anything else they do (caps, GFs kills, etc.).
You have to have a dynamic understanding of WT matches to understand all of this, it’s quite advanced.
While some people might not grasp it, it is still an important consideration and one that in-depth thought touches upon.
Incorrect…managing SP well is just another talent of a player (especially as efficiency goes) because it gives them more options on how to go about their game.
You’d be wise to start paying attention, it’d improve your results and efficiency. It’s naive to think this way of it…
You might try to be sarcastic, but the best AB players are better than RB/SB than most of the players who are dedicated to this modes.
When You do C&F tactic, You are the one controlling the ‘If’. No one can stop You with air unit as he won’t be able to catch You before You drop bombs and if there is SPAA, You can avoid it.
Possible is a big word. If I had to choose between a fighter for 480 SP and an SPAA to deal with the air, I will always pick a fighter as it gives You much more advantage and options (that is why it costs more).
I haven’t seen anyone besides You talking about it as everyone is talking about how effective the vechicles are against each other, not how much SP they cost.
It is correct. But again, You would need to play with excellent players to begin with.
If one earns enough SP before dying, he don’t have to even think about it when it comes to spawning another vechicle. That is what excellent players really do.
Chuckled a bit.
As is commonly known and also proven in the video cited earlier, this is not true.
Let’s not kid ourselves: CnF is a gamble like anything else.
The math is what determines the possibility in that case…it’s all about the tally when the kill feed comes in.
As for your personal choices and opinions, those are you own.
As I said, it’s an advanced topic…many don’t think about such in-depth things as this.
Incorrect–what you said was simply very naive (no offense).
As an above average player myself, I can tell you considering all aspects of a match and the mechanics in it are important. It strikes me as silly that you’re contesting that.
Excellent players consider all aspects…what they earn is just one of the things along the way, they don’t have to ignore certain parts. Such ignorance is indicative of poor situational awareness and that leads to worse results.
It’s not really a laughing matter…you really should take it more seriously. You’re holding yourself back by not looking into these more advanced methods.
PM me if you’d like me to help tutor you on the bit–don’t bloat the thread with more inquiries here.
With that said…if CAS posed such a thread, having defenses up to defend against that would validate that the threat exists. If people don’t even have the motivation to mount a defense…it’s doubtful it is as they say.
Putting up defenses means you’re not doing what you want to be doing, is playing the game and playing with tanks.
And matches are full of SPAA, they just get rekt.
Provided the SPAA players position themselves well, they can force the aircraft into their range if the AFs try to engage GFs.
You can’t position yourself well on maps that keep getting smaller and more areas get locked and everyone in a 10km radius sees your location the moment you start shooting which means you need to be covered from all angles and well out or reach of enemy tanks.
Stay away from spawn and you won’t have an issue as a plane unless your team is being spawncamped and SPAA are halfway down the map because there is no opposition.
CAS is nerfed to be very unattractive already and its getting hard to earn enough points to stay in the game after getting shot down in CAS and getting shot down is quite likely.Like everything else in this game the CAS fun has been ended by the moaners .
SP costs are irrelevant, unless you limit the amount of SP a player can spend in a game and a plane is not an SP generator it doesn’t matter.
CAS is nerfed to be very unattractive already and its getting hard to earn enough points to stay in the game after getting shot down in CAS and getting shot down is quite likely.Like everything else in this game the CAS fun has been ended by the moaners .
Nerfed how, it’s the same it was 10 years ago.
As evidenced by @JuicyKuuuuki, that’s certainly not something that can be said to apply to everyone.
Beyond that, it’s the opportunity cost of the matter and no different than any other contribution to the team’s well-being. Everything has its costs.
Squashed maps are problematic at best, there’s no denying that.
It all depends…having a surplus is a nice angle to have and good awareness/management is the avenue to that result.
I can see it is clearly not even in 3 years its changed and its chaging daily.The whole game is in a chaotic state of flux on a daily basis.Hence why so many are just leaving and giving WT stinking reviews.
“Fighters First” is still CAS. A lot of vehicles are open topped or have little to no armor, it’s still CAS even if the plane carries no bombs.
Pointing out a very good SPAA player (from what I remember) is not a counterargument. On the whole, SPAA is vastly inferior in terms of firepower, mobility, ability to evade, ease of aiming, ease of fighting targets, and survivability (there are probably more factors but I can’t think of more right now).
You are confusing K/D ratios to combat/defense ability. A non-SPAA ground vehicle will have little to no ability to combat planes, whereas planes can easily take out any form of ground vehicle (they only have to press space bar or adjust using the help of their round hitting the ground). Having no way to fight back against planes easily is the issue, hence why SPAA SP costs are really low.
As for actually answering, the way to re-balance CAS without even impacting CAS imo is:
Br Changes -
Sound/Visual Design -
Adding More SPAAs -
Fixing Some SPAA’s Stats -
Other -
Ways to re-balance CAS through impacting CAS:
As evidenced by @JuicyKuuuuki, that’s certainly not something that can be said to apply to everyone.
I don’t know who that is or what he does.
Beyond that, it’s the opportunity cost of the matter and no different than any other contribution to the team’s well-being. Everything has its costs.
Problem is that it never ends, this means you permanently have to play SPAA, the entire game, every game, every match, it doesn’t make sense.
It all depends…having a surplus is a nice angle to have and good awareness/management is the avenue to that result.
Get a kill or a cap, spawn a plane and just don’t immediately crash and waste it.
I often enough spawn a plane with all my SP, and by the time I die I have enough SP for ANOTHER plane.
While there is a theoretical possibility for such moves, the fact that the enemy team has as much capability to yield fighters for their own defense would handicap any attempts to try this.
Any clean fighter who tried this would be subject to shootdown by the enemy team…so I wouldn’t regard there being any significant threat of that posing an issue.
I understand the matter of exchange rates and abilities.
Though distinct in their own right, they are still tied in that costs can allow for certain tolerances in their use (a la cost-effectiveness despite ‘poor’ exchange rates).
…
To your list of proposed changes, I have advocated for many years hiking SPAAs’ earnings for air kills only by 400%.
SPAA guru
Reading a match is important and can help with such decisionmaking.
With that in mind, those scenarios are why despawn points also need to be implemented.
All the same, good SP awareness and management is a good practice.