I declined to comment on the matter–I didn’t deny the bracket’s existence.
Not really. The next bunch of enemy aircraft that ignore my SPAA will probably die because of that ignorance…nevermind anyone who doesn’t pay attention to @JuicyKuuuuki!
SPAAs have been derided so thoroughly over the years that it’s no wonder they get less than their fair share of attention and love…they’ve been neglected.
Still, there are some premium SPAAs that see use (notably the Soviet Type 65).
You must be confused…
I was pointing out that their perception believing there’s an issue is only an opinion…it is not a fact.
Not really, especially if you claim CAS hype to be true.
If you’re confused, I can explain the matter by PM…there’s no reason to bloat the thread here.
Like I said, it’s quite cerebral…it’s an advanced topic to discuss regarding WT.
Not really. The next bunch of enemy aircraft that ignore my SPAA will probably die because of that ignorance…
I doubt it, as long as you stay away from the enemy spawn area most players won’t come anywhere near hitting you, it’s only when planes start engaging SPAA and getting too close is when they start dying.
Still, there are some premium SPAAs that see use
An SPAA from the better part of a decade ago that barely anyone even has these days.
The sky isn’t green even if you can convince a majority of your friends to say it’s so…facts matter.
Both scenarios rely on skillful play to succeed, so it’s really just a fork in the road.
A player has to be quite naive to think a reserve tank can survive reliably…not to mention players don’t get to choose maps.
Lmao, the opposite is true: considering factors like SP costs and efficiency shows an advanced understanding of WT.
As I conceded before though…not everyone is up to this.
‘Only’ is a really strong word.
Besides @JuicyKuuuuki, I’ve seen plenty of SPAAs swat enemies from the skies and often times it’s not even through intentional or well placed shots…spray and pray kills just as well as sniping.
In that regard, WT is even more forgiving than real life (who cares about firing an ungodly amount of ammo? It’s cheap and there’s no collateral damage)…
It was an example and Thunderskill being what it is nowadays makes those exact figures suspect (it’s changing hands right now).
If SPAAs weren’t so heavily (and unfairly) derided, they’d probably get more play and some premiums too…we don’t know even know about talismans and the like as-is.
And this is a game where how players see it determines how it changes.
With C&F I can choose what map I play as I can leave without crew-lock while a player playing normally has to play all maps or wait 9 minutes.
Sorry but if You need to care about SP while playing the game it tells something about You. When I play I don’t have problems with SP.
For me what is effective is what allows me to archieve what I want. If I’m able to destroy the best tank of the enemy team while he can’t do anything about it, after just capping a zone then it is effective.
I’m not sure whether to chuckle at that for the naivete of it or express sympathy for how that ought to be the case.
We’d all like for it to be that way…but it isn’t.
Yeah…what you describe is not ‘choosing the map’–it’s “shopping for a match.”
People playing normal lineups cannot change maps in that manner…they get what they get.
Considering these factors says such a person is comprehending the game in a very advanced manner and is thinking everything through–it’s something to strive for.
Personally, I don’t have any issues gathering SP–I do well and do not have to rely upon cheesy things like bushes or manipulated settings to do it. I just play well to do well. :)
Besides @JuicyKuuuuki, I’ve seen plenty of SPAAs swat enemies from the skies and often times it’s not even through intentional or well placed shots…spray and pray kills just as well as sniping.
I have spent plenty of time in SPAA and I still have to rely on enemies making the mistake of coming too close for me to be able to do anything because you’re not going to hit anything when the planes can see the rounds coming from a mile away and dodge them with minor corrections.
In that regard, WT is even more forgiving than real life (who cares about firing an ungodly amount of ammo? It’s cheap and there’s no collateral damage)…
People who have to worry about more than a singular plane in the sky… which is pretty common.
Also any SPAA who is moving out into a different location doesn’t want to fire more shots than needed, I can easily trace the SPAA back to the enemy spawn despite being several km away.
It was an example and Thunderskill being what it is nowadays makes those exact figures suspect
Not that difficult to imagine a meh vehicle from 2017 isn’t that common today.
That is why if one wants to just play planes, doing C&F gives him advantage over players playing with normal line-ups.
Not really as he doesn’t take into consideration other factors. Just because something can be spawned with little SP doesn’t mean that it is going to do anything ;).
I’m starting to question that after reading what You are saying.
If aircraft are not allowed to make successful attacks and/or die, the SPAAs have succeeded in their missions.
This brings direct earnings to SPAAs by killing/wounding enemies, but simply warding enemy aircraft off is enough for them to succeed in their air defense mission.
That doesn’t really have any influence on what I was saying…as long as you’ve got ammo and haven’t overheated your barrels, you can use it on as many ‘customers’ as come along.
If they’re not within a reasonable range, they’re not worth firing upon…that’s just a matter of capability, judgment and skill.
Thunderskill data is definitely unreliable at the moment and the Type 65 was presented as a demonstrator of ‘what could be’…we could certainly have premium SPAAs, particularly if the bogus derision of them ceased.
If aircraft are not allowed to make successful attacks and/or die, the SPAAs have succeeded in their missions.
Planes spawn on the opposite direction from where the SPAA is and will be able to engage targets before ever coming near SPAA… as long as they’re not wasting time and loitering, it’s almost impossible to stop a plane from attacking. It’s only the cannon CAS that suffers.
Simply warding enemy aircraft off is enough for them to succeed in their air defense mission.
Yeah… and they get rewarded 0 RP and 0 SL for their efforts, wonder why people don’t like doing this.
That doesn’t really have any influence on what I was saying…as long as you’ve got ammo and haven’t overheated your barrels, you can use it on as many ‘customers’ as come along.
Not all SPAA has that much ammo, and you’re also dealing with reloads, Wirbelwind has a 5 second reload on a belt during which it can easily be killed if it doesn’t manage this properly.
Contraereo only gets about 1 minute worth of firing and can easily run out.
R3 also has a 9 second reload, you cannot start an engagement low on ammo.
If they’re not within a reasonable range, they’re not worth firing upon…that’s just a matter of capability, judgment and skill.
And who controls that range? The pilots, and if they stay out of range they won’t be fired upon.
we could certainly have premium SPAAs, particularly if the bogus derision of them ceased.
It’s pretty clear snail does not want SPAA to be better as they neglected them for the last decade and ignored feedback for the last decade despite a lot of changes that could have been made.
I have pointed out to You the option for people who just want to use planes in RB GFs and how eaisly they can do it. Not to even mention the advantages they get over people who want to play with full line-ups.
Not really. Just because You can spawn something two times doesn’t give You the advantage over more expensive unit.
If one needs to take into consideration SP while playing, it only means that he is having a problem in gathering enough of it before he dies.
That is something that I will say ought to be looked into and subject to discussion/change.
With that said…if CAS posed such a thread, having defenses up to defend against that would validate that the threat exists. If people don’t even have the motivation to mount a defense…it’s doubtful it is as they say.
Indeed, all part of the ‘as long as you have ammo’ bit.
I have used the M42 recently and it isn’t quite an ‘Italian Wirbelwind’ as some might liken it.
Provided the SPAA players position themselves well, they can force the aircraft into their range if the AFs try to engage GFs.
Anti-SPAA derision certainly hasn’t helped…
That’s not what was being discussed, nor does your described manner confer an advantage onto people…being a one or two death leaver by default is a very poor approach for the team’s health.
To be honest, your methods are far likelier to damage the player’s own team than to give him any advantage…especially considering how it works out with the average players.
In terms of cost effectiveness, it unquestionably does lead to an advantage–you have to look at the math and then consider the costs such actions impose.
PM me if you need more help, don’t bloat the thread.
Incorrect…careful consideration of such matters as SP is the mark of an excellent player.
You are deeply confused if you believe thoughtful gameplay is bad…it’s exactly what you want in a teammate!
Correct–that’s set to replace my spaded L-62 as soon as my Swedes get to 4.3…I’m running through SW 4.0 currently.
Most of the people leave after first death or the second one. If You are able to destroy the best vechicle of the enemy team You are giving a huge advantage to Your own team.
It leads to the advantage if the more expensive unit is not used properly.
If I can destroy someone SPAA and he doesn’t have a back up, then I have already won. Not to mention if he spawns then in other unit (like a tank or tank destroyer) which I destroy.
Just because something works on paper doesn’t mean it works in the battle ;). Something might be more cost-effective, but it doesn’t mean that it will win because of it.
As again, no one cares about SP costs of SPAA compared to air untis when talking about the balance.
Excellent players don’t look at the SP as they don’t have to care about it.
That relies on a big ‘if’ especially if you’re entering it on such shaky conditions as relying upon the enemy allowing you to pass them.
Simply playing well in the conventional manner is a more reliable bet, as even the Spookston acknowledges in his video.
There is no problem with the results of skillful use, period–they should be respected.
Beyond that, it’s absolutely possible for cost-effectiveness to determine successes and defeats…because that’s often exactly how things go. Conditions vary, but math doesn’t…and if you can kill a 480 SP vehicle with some mix of <480 SP vehicles, you’ve won the battle of cost-effectiveness.
What I spelled out before (a 1:5 or 1:2 exchange rate scenario for SPAAs) were essentially worst case scenarios for them…they’re generally far better, with even 1:1 being a favorable trade. If an SPAA player can yield 1:1 or higher, they’re batting at/above par regardless of anything else they do (caps, GFs kills, etc.).
You have to have a dynamic understanding of WT matches to understand all of this, it’s quite advanced.
While some people might not grasp it, it is still an important consideration and one that in-depth thought touches upon.
Incorrect…managing SP well is just another talent of a player (especially as efficiency goes) because it gives them more options on how to go about their game.
You’d be wise to start paying attention, it’d improve your results and efficiency. It’s naive to think this way of it…
When You do C&F tactic, You are the one controlling the ‘If’. No one can stop You with air unit as he won’t be able to catch You before You drop bombs and if there is SPAA, You can avoid it.
Possible is a big word. If I had to choose between a fighter for 480 SP and an SPAA to deal with the air, I will always pick a fighter as it gives You much more advantage and options (that is why it costs more).
I haven’t seen anyone besides You talking about it as everyone is talking about how effective the vechicles are against each other, not how much SP they cost.
It is correct. But again, You would need to play with excellent players to begin with.
If one earns enough SP before dying, he don’t have to even think about it when it comes to spawning another vechicle. That is what excellent players really do.
As is commonly known and also proven in the video cited earlier, this is not true.
Let’s not kid ourselves: CnF is a gamble like anything else.
The math is what determines the possibility in that case…it’s all about the tally when the kill feed comes in.
As for your personal choices and opinions, those are you own.
As I said, it’s an advanced topic…many don’t think about such in-depth things as this.
Incorrect–what you said was simply very naive (no offense).
As an above average player myself, I can tell you considering all aspects of a match and the mechanics in it are important. It strikes me as silly that you’re contesting that.
Excellent players consider all aspects…what they earn is just one of the things along the way, they don’t have to ignore certain parts. Such ignorance is indicative of poor situational awareness and that leads to worse results.
It’s not really a laughing matter…you really should take it more seriously. You’re holding yourself back by not looking into these more advanced methods.
PM me if you’d like me to help tutor you on the bit–don’t bloat the thread with more inquiries here.
