As I have already done it in this topic many times, You can look it up ;).
1 Like
“No you!” Classy. I’ve addressed all your points. Let me know when you have something worthwhile to say
If You have anything more to say than it was already said in this and many topic and was already talked about, let me know.
I have replied to all, if You have problem understandkng it, fell free to ask.
5 Likes
- Gaijin won’t be giving players spaded CAP units
- Getting a free CAP unit des not mean you will be able to use it effectively. For many that would be a worse option than any of the spaa they might have in their garage.
2 Likes
They do in naval. Not the max possible loadout, needs to be some reason to actually grind the tree too, but there are enough options for lower power aircraft or limited A2A loadouts on stronger aircraft to make them viable, but not as good as possible.
That may be the case, and therefore the player should choose what is best.
The issue was ONLY that not everyone who has grinded the ground tree, will have done the air tree too and therefore doesnt have access to any aircraft. Yes, it may not be the best option at all times, but its not about making CAP the only counter, its about giving everyone the same options. Much in the same way they added strike drones so that everyone had a CAS option
1 Like
I think you underestimate just how easy prey most CAS players are lol
This on top of the fact that until guided bombs are introduced, most people have to put themselves into seriously bad positions to be able to drop a bomb accurately. Prime targets for a fighter not loaded down with ordinance to wax them.
I consider myself half decent at air combat, most of the ground trees do not have equivalent airplanes researched so for a lot of them I’m stuck with SPAA. I feel like this would be a nice change that would allow people to run CAP without having to basically double their grind.
For a player who did not grind any air tech trees?
I play only lower rank GRB, but in those battles prop planes have had no trouble destroying my tanks.
Additionally, in those ranks, many of the CAS are very similar to the CAP used, and after dropping ordinance, would certainly be able to defend themselves - especially against unspaded aircraft that have novice crews and a user with little yo no experience flying.
The average player who did not grind air tech trees will not be “decent” in air to air combat.
They will get eaten alive by players who did grind air tech trees.
3 Likes
For anyone. Planes loaded for CAS are not going to maneuver nearly as well as a plane loaded for A2A. Getting engaged by a fighter would require all but some of the best players to prematurely drop the ordinance or get shot down. This on top of having to engage in a dive in a predictable bearing to drop the ordinance as well is pretty much the best engagement you could possibly give to CAP.
Nobody’s forcing them to bring it out. It could be a way for them to learn how to fight in the air if they want, or it could be used by players, such as myself, who can hold their own in the air but don’t have a plane unlocked for the BR they’re playing at.
At minimum even a player who’s absolute dogwater in the air will still force a CAS player to pull attention and deal with them, which allows for breathing room for even a few moments.
You are assuming the CAP player is already in the air before the CAS shows up. Why would that be?
In many cases, the prop CAS that has dropped it’s ordinance can readily defend itself against a novice player with a stock CAP.
The air unit you have most ground kills with has almost as many air kills (206 vs 198).
That kind of deflates your argument…
And earn nothing but a loss of spawn points and loss of tickets for their team.
3 Likes
I’ve already been through this crap before.
It’s an addition that’s ultimately harmless in the end, I don’t know why you feel the need to pick it apart to death, but have your fun.
Because suggestions like that do NOT solve the problem.
They are a mirage.
And you added your 2-cents worth to my post to someone else.
I can’t help it if you are gonna get defensive about my rebuttal.
1 Like
The problem is nitpicking a suggestion like that because they don’t cover every single edge case is also incredibly unhelpful. So many people in this thread are so focused on “just remove CAS lul” despite the fact that Gaijin will never do this that any proposal has to be absolutely 100% perfect flawless or it’s not worth considering.
It makes trying to argue the point pointless because such a solution will never exist. Is it a total solve? No. Will it at least help? It might. That’s the point. Looking for a binary yes/no to solving the issue is the wrong way to look at it. The real question is will it help alleviate the issue.
Spend over 500 SP to drop a 1*500 lb bomb XD. What kind of players will always imagine SPAAs never work and CAS will farm ground targets like eating snacks? After against those cold war SPAAs
1 Like
Yea but can’t blame the players for this.
I for example am only really interested in playing high/top tier.
Of course if i’m buying i a premium vehicle, i buy the one of the highest rank, so i can actually research the entire tree with it and not a vehicle which becomes useless after rank 5 for example and wastes my money.
4 Likes
There are few - if any - who suggest removing CAS.
This is what posters are actually suggesting…
- RGB remains as is
- Add new mode Tank Only
Players have options and will play the mode they like
4 Likes
Honestly trying to argue with him is useless, I’d like for CAS to be removed… i never hid that and that’s because i think it’s fundamentally impossible to balance but I’m also fine with a Tank only mode… he isn’t tho because “it would kill combined arms”. I’d say that is a way clearer demonstration of what people think about CAS
1 Like
Her* for the record and outright dismissing what I was saying because you didn’t deem it worth considering and did exactly what I pointed out is definitely a take
Like EstorgenPnZR-psn pointed out they do and others were as well, as well as this constantly being a thing said in game as well. Most players in this game won’t even consider the ramifications
The issue with this is like I said it’s not going to happen. The most I could see this idea being applied is limiting how much CAS can be spawned, which will help the problem at least.
The reason I am saying that something like this isn’t going to happen comes from how long I’ve played Warthunder and actually paying attention to how Gaijin has operated over the years.
- This /will/ increase queue times. A while back this was a big thing people were complaining endlessly about and Gaijin has made a big deal about cutting down. The only reason they would do this is if there’s monetary gain to be had which cuts nicely into point 2
- Gaijin makes a lot of money from premium CAS planes. A vast majority of the premium planes released have been fairly weak in air battles but have super strong capabilities in ground battles as CAS planes. Think of planes like the J-22M1A which while recently added shows up in pretty much every GRB at or above its BR now because of how strong it is, but has a pretty weak performance in air battles.
I also believe a “tank only” mode will also only really shift the imbalance problem towards being defense/camp heavy as well. This is part of the reason why I believe balancing it with a strong incentivized counter is the ideal method instead of a direct hard nerf
My bad my language defaults to male pronouns. And no… i did consider you suggestion, giving people more resources and a CAP plane won’t solve anything… on the contrary they’ll use the free CAP plane as CAS even if it can only attack open top vehicles… your suggestion is simply not good
4 Likes
Some people will, however even on open top vehicles this is still much less effective than an actual CAS plane. Also viewing this option in a vacuum is also erroneous, this is why you also buff rewards for actually shooting down planes. Incentives are key here.
Also, can we stop seeing this issue as a need for a binary “solve or not solve”? There is no solution that will totally solve the problem, it will help the problem.